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How did Madonna and Michael Jackson write their songs?
- Thread starter ElectroVibe
- Start date
Woah now... I wasn't calling out either one of those stars. For all I know, they wrote every thing attributed to them! I was making a general comment on the disparity of compensation between writers and performers. Nashville has a long history of working this "angle"( see: Acuff/Rose).
There's the pride issue, and there's the money issue.
All I'm saying is, how big a deal would it be to ANY of these artists if the money part wasn't such a big deal....
I apologise for the assumption!
I think there seem to be a lot of people who can't understand how Madonna can write songs. It doesn't matter that she was in bands, etc before going solo.
Reminds me of my sister. She hates Beyonce for some reason (like she seems to have a hang up about her specifically) and thinks she's a fraud who doesn't merit any respect because she "doesn't actually write her own music" (not sure how or why she can be so certain of this). Yet she totally loves Frank Sinatra. I pointed out the irony and she didn't understand.
Footage of Madge singing and playing guitar in her early ska-pop-band-thingie. Footage @2'12"
Ya know, starting to think TB might not be the best place to come for actual facts, matters of nut width notwithstanding
Ya know, starting to think TB might not be the best place to come for actual facts, matters of nut width notwithstanding
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It's a fact, not a theory. Patrick Leonard wrote all the music in all the songs co-written with her, which is most part of her career. She only wrote the lyrics.
I was referring to songs in which she received (sole) 100 percent credit. I've edited my previous post.
Me Against the Music - I think she had more than a little help on that one. See all the co-writers listed.
You'll See - David Foster had a hand in that one, too.
Most of her songs list one or more co-writers.
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She writes usually with other songwriters but 70% of Madonna’s first album songs were written by her and only Her including the US TOP 5 Hit “Lucky Star” and her first single, released only as maxi-single, “Everybody” (that peaked #03 at Maxi-Single Sales Chart in US and #107 at Singles Charts). In UK her song “Gambler” that peaked #05 on the charts was also 100% written just by Madonna.
Thanks, I was wondering if that's what you meant. I don't know which ones she retains credit for because I've never been that interested in her music, but I would assume that if she has a sole songwriting credit on it, it's because she wrote it.
Most of her collaborations with Patrick Leonard were composed by Patrick Leonard, with Madonna writing the lyrics.
However, when she worked with William Orbit in the late 1990s, she would often both write the lyrics and compose the melody on top of pre-existing instrumental tracks produced by Orbit.
When Madonna worked with Martin Solveig in 2011, he would often provide her with pre-existing vocal demos, based on which she would then write entirely new lyrics and alter the melody and/or chord progression.
For her 2015 Rebel Heart album, Madonna co-wrote most of the songs from scratch, along with her co-writers.
In terms of production, she doesn't actually push any of the buttons herself. But she has so much control over the final product that she has been credited as a co-producer of all her songs since 1985, the only exceptions being the songs she co-wrote with Justin Timberlake and Timbaland for her 2008 Hard Candy album.
However, when she worked with William Orbit in the late 1990s, she would often both write the lyrics and compose the melody on top of pre-existing instrumental tracks produced by Orbit.
When Madonna worked with Martin Solveig in 2011, he would often provide her with pre-existing vocal demos, based on which she would then write entirely new lyrics and alter the melody and/or chord progression.
For her 2015 Rebel Heart album, Madonna co-wrote most of the songs from scratch, along with her co-writers.
In terms of production, she doesn't actually push any of the buttons herself. But she has so much control over the final product that she has been credited as a co-producer of all her songs since 1985, the only exceptions being the songs she co-wrote with Justin Timberlake and Timbaland for her 2008 Hard Candy album.
It's a thing. There's a whole subtopic going on about how some musicians in the earlier days were robbed of their writing credits because people in the business figured they could get away with it. They got away with it, in part, because too many people were willing to say "I don't think that (kind of) person would have been able to write that song."
And yet, here we are on the same thread trying to suggest that, in another context (one where the person actually does retain credit), that (kind of) person isn't capable.
Not sure what that says about us but it's time for lunch. Homemade soup. I made it myself.
To editorialize, I would assert that most music artists with careers spanning multiple decades tend to bring in other writers to keep it going. Kiss come to mind. And Aerosmith. Iggy Pop's "Passenger" was a riff thought up by a guitarist with whom he teamed to co-write songs for one album. Iggy did an album or two with Steve Jones co-writing. I don't see how having co-writers invalidates an artist.
This is a song about Madonna's breakup with Sean Penn. Her catalogue is full of confessional work. She's not a hack, she's an auteur.
This is a song about Madonna's breakup with Sean Penn. Her catalogue is full of confessional work. She's not a hack, she's an auteur.
It's like when people on TB are surprised when they see the videos of Kenny Rodgers playing bebop bass on DB. He was a jazz bassist before doing any songwriting or singing, and before he moved to Nashville. Music is a lifelong journey for everyone, don't underestimate anyone who has put enough time into it to become successful.
The biggest example I can think of that no one would question authorship on is the whole Aja album. Walter and Donald do play instruments on that album, but almost all the heavy lifting for them was done by seasoned session pros, and they brought in lots of those guys and paid them handsomely, sometimes recording many different players for the same song until they got the vibe they were looking for. It could be argued (and I would not do that) that their contributions as songwriters were minimal, but you won't hear anyone saying that, because it would be ridiculous. They wrote the songs, they hired the talent to play it well, they guided the effort and signed off on the final version of everything. Why is it so clear that they deserve credit, and not as clear for others who are doing essentially the same thing?
There's a difference between songwriting, instrumentation, production and engineering. A lot of artists have their hand in more than one piece of that, and often need assistance to get the best product possible.
Yeah, the implication that she muscled writing credit onto other people's songs a la Elvis is inaccurate. She has a very well-documented history of song collaboration with numerous writers, has been as disciplined about songwriting as she has gym and diet, and she has been rather generous about the contributions of others on genre-distinctive albums such as Ray of Light.
I would say that Walter and Donald, like Madonna, have a vision and use the best players to achieve it. So I do agree it wrong to judge them by different standards, and the bias is not just anti-madge, but anti-femme. I mean, there was a thread on TB the other day with the suggestion that Joni Mitchell was only successful because she was physically desirable. I mean, that's just absurd. Page and Plant worshipped her early albums, and yearned to be the "real thing" such as she was just as Lennon wished badly he were Dylan.
The music on this one was by P. Leonard as well... The final part was sooo good. That wah guitar moment.
Yeah BTW I think the thread questioned whether these artists are capable of writing the whole song alone, no one questions they are capable of writing the whole structure of the vocal line but in my book who writes the arrangement is an "author", not a "producer".
Actually, who writes the arrangement is an arranger. By your logic, every cover version ever recorded that wasn't a note-for-note reproduction would require a revision to authorship.
Easy to jump to the conclusion that sexism is behind the dismissals but I’m not convinced. Madonna chose to work the “sex kitten” persona and image to her advantage from the start. It’s pretty much inevitable that anyone who does that and who doesn’t also demonstrate an obvious musical talent is going to be labelled as being not much more than a pretty face. George Michael (for example) suffered from the same sorts of unfair judgments.
