How did Madonna and Michael Jackson write their songs?

[ElectroVibe]

The credits on their albums show them as the sole writer on some of their songs, including their biggest hits.

So, if neither of them played an instrument, isn't it interesting that they got complete songwriting credit for just words and melody? I don't doubt that they probably provided enough melody and maybe even harmony, to suggest the correct chords for the musicians and producers. But I just think this is very interesting.

 

[bholder]

I suspect they both played enough piano and/or guitar to frame their ideas adequately to get their ideas across to the other musicians.

 

[JRA]

i've seen (pics/vids) of both of them at the piano --- you don't have to be a great piano player to be a fine musician using one ...e.g., knowing where the harmonies/chords are to your melody.

lots of writers say they "don't play an instrument" but they can show you what to play on yours via a piano! those two know more than most, and more than you think. also: pianos rule.

 

[Guitalia]

Almost by definition, popular music is neither harmonically nor rhythmically complicated. Irving Berlin, who composed some of the most commercially successful music of the 20th century, never learned to play piano at more than a rudimentary level and preferred to play exclusively on the black keys. In fact, the piano he used to write most of his music was a custom-designed "transposing" upright.

 

[btmpancake]

Ear experience/training and knowing how chords fit should help immensely in writing songs being that they are successful singers. They may not be able to play it, but they know how it's suppose to sound when they hear it--like me.

 

[JTE]

I recall a guitar player talking about a Madonna session he was on. She was very specific about what she planned for the guitar parts- something like "I want a real clean Strat playing this part doubled and each panned hard to opposite sides, with a crunchy Les Paul up the middle. Plus, there are photos of her playing guitar.

Jackson would sing parts to musicians.

Besides songwriting copyright pretty much just covers the lyric and melody anyway.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Probably a whole lot of "suggesting" or approvals going on...call it ghost-writing, whatever. I'm always amazed at what one can pull-off if famous, filthy rich, and working with complicit professionals. Also applies to the Kardashians.

Riis

 

[bholder]

I've always thought Bowie was another interesting case - from what I can tell, his guitar playing was never really stellar, more like strum-along folkie, and he tinkered on piano, but he had a very clear vision of what he wanted to make musically. And not just "simple pop stuff" either, he got quite sophisticated at times, theory-wise. I wonder if any video of any of his recording sessions survives...

 

[ElectroVibe]

Almost by definition, popular music is neither harmonically nor rhythmically complicated. Irving Berlin, who composed some of the most commercially successful music of the 20th century, never learned to play piano at more than a rudimentary level and preferred to play exclusively on the black keys. In fact, the piano he used to write most of his music was a custom-designed "transposing" upright.

That's interesting. I never would have suspected it. I was just reading that he was advised by a musician friend to not pursue his desire to studying theory and composition, since it might have changed his natural abilities. Probably a very good decision, looking at what great music Berlin composed.

 

[ElectroVibe]

I've always thought Bowie was another interesting case - from what I can tell, his guitar playing was never really stellar, more like strum-along folkie, and he tinkered on piano, but he had a very clear vision of what he wanted to make musically. And not just "simple pop stuff" either, he got quite sophisticated at times, theory-wise. I wonder if any video of any of his recording sessions survives...

Interesting, never thought about that. I don't look down on a guitarist who only plays rhythm, because I assume he's just doing what he wants to. But he probably never played much because (I assume) he didn't want to, and he'd probably rather have good musicians in his band.

 

[BarfanyShart]

I saw a video of MJ in the studio, part of a TV interview back in the 80's. He beat boxed the drum rhythm, tapped it out on a drum machine, hummed the bass line, sang the melody without lyrics, harmonized vocally,, recorded all that on a multitrack tape, and passed it off to a producer. He said he had lots of lyrics in notebooks that he could pair with the song idea if it developed any further. It took him an hour, and he said when he's trying to write new material he might make ten of those tapes in a day and send them off to people to work on. Interesting way of doing things, but he's definitely writing the song.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Leo Fender didn’t play guitar or bass. So, he couldn’t possibly built a guitar or a bass....

You don’t need to play an instrument to come up with melodies and lyrics.

 

[oZZma]

The credits on their albums show them as the sole writer on some of their songs, including their biggest hits.

I don't know about her latest albums but Madonna's songs up to "Like a Prayer" were mostly written by Patrick Leonard or other people, and it's no secret. She only wrote the lyrics. She wrote the vocal melody on a few songs and most of her first record, but even there: for these people the "producer" is the one who makes the arrangement job. Writing only the vocal melody and crediting yourself as the sole songwriter is a quite common falsification in pop music.

So, if neither of them played an instrument, isn't it interesting that they got complete songwriting credit for just words and melody? I don't doubt that they probably provided enough melody and maybe even harmony,

You should

 

[jerry]

Michael was stingy with the credits, he even didn't want to give co-producer credit to Quincy Jones for Thriller.

 

[2tonic]

Pat Leonard, after Trillion, worked for Zappa, and the Allman Brothers, then toured with Jackson as musical director. He wrote, recorded, and toured with Madonna for years, then formed Toy Matinee with Guy Pratt and Kevin Gilbert. He has since done more work with Madonna and other "A" list artists, too numerous to list here.

I've known Pat since the mid 70's, and there's no doubt in my mind who wrote most of Madonna's, and some of Jackson's music.

 

[Hummergeist]

Song writing is nothing to do with playing an instrument. Lyrics and melody, that’s it. And the session musicians that do well know that too, they know their place in the system.

 

[MNAirHead]

I know the inside of the industry.

Its common to assign or sell rights. Writer is the cash tree.

There are tunes on the radio that are me. The person who thought they played them is listed on the credits - I am not. The listed player does not know I assisted the producer.

The songwriter I now record for sells his material to another writer (with connections) - they are listed under the buyers name.

The business part is super dirty.

 

[yodedude2]

since for so very long the words and melody were the only copyright-protected parts of a song, i would expect the matter to be as you originally suggested, and not particularly interesting. yet, copyrighted authors are not always the original writers. did not elvis regularly get 50% credit for songs he recorded but did not write?

 

[oZZma]

Song writing is nothing to do with playing an instrument. Lyrics and melody, that’s it. .

Haha yeah, sure. I guess "Billie Jean" would have been the same "iconic" song without that bassline.
Arrangement is a HUGE part of songwriting. Giving credit to whoever contributed would be the only fair and honest thing to do.
"The system" sucks hard.

 

[Hummergeist]

Haha yeah, sure. I guess "Billie Jean" would have been the same "iconic" song without that bassline.
Arrangement is a HUGE part of songwriting. Giving credit to whoever contributed would be the only fair and honest thing to do.
"The system" sucks hard.

Hey, I'm not saying how it should be, but that's how it is. An arrangement can't be legally protected. If you sing Billie Jean a cappella, that's the song there. Session players who ask for a slice of the publishing don't get invited back.