How did Madonna and Michael Jackson write their songs?

[Son of Wobble]

Raphael Ravenscroft didn't receive any credit for his clarion call of a sax intro to Baker Street and it's a huge part of the song, it's just the way of the world in session life.

Did he create that lick?
That is indeed the first part one recalls. Whole song a pretty melody, though. But yeah, the horn part is essentially the chorus, innit

 

[ElectroVibe]

Klaus Voorman played the distinctive intro to "You're so vain" but the song is all credited to Carly Simon.

He's quoted as saying he just spontaneously came up with it on the spot.

It's a cool riff, but that would be a stretch to give him songwriting credit. I used to love the song, but I never even noticed that until recently.

 

[Brent Nussey]

Interesting insight. I love to hear these “behind the curtain” factoids.

I couldn't slog through the whole thread to see if someone posted it, but Berlin's piano was not something he tried to hide, he was proud of it.


Glad someone pointed out the Micheal Jackson demo recording, he really did write some of his biggest hits.

I heard an interview with Tim Lefebvre where they asked him about his basslines on Bowie's Blackstar. He said "Those were Bowie's bass parts, I just played what he played on the demos"

 

[devnulljp]

You feel "de-skilled" because someone used a different method of songwriting than whatever you use?

You're being deliberately obtuse and argumentative

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I couldn't slog through the whole thread to see if someone posted it, but Berlin's piano was not something he tried to hide, he was proud of it.


Glad someone pointed out the Micheal Jackson demo recording, he really did write some of his biggest hits.

I heard an interview with Tim Lefebvre where they asked him about his basslines on Bowie's Blackstar. He said "Those were Bowie's bass parts, I just played what he played on the demos"

thanks again.

 

[Mpcorb]

This fascinates me. Read the whole page if you love hearing about how ill informed record label people can be about what a hit might be..!
Heartbreak Hotel - Wikipedia

"Heartbreak Hotel" is a song recorded by American singer Elvis Presley. It was released as a single on January 27, 1956, Presley's first on his new record label RCA Victor.[1] It was written by Tommy Durden and Mae Boren Axton, with credit being given also to Presley.

Later in the wiki page:
In an interview, Durden conceded that he did not recognize his song after Presley had made the changes to it in the studio, including the tempo, phrasing, lyrics, and overall sound.[24] In subsequent recordings, these major modifications to the existing material became a normal procedure for Presley who took over the role of producer, although Sholes was still credited. Speaking of Sholes' producing credits, Phillips said "he was not a producer. Steve was just at every session".[25]

The moral of this story for me is that we really shouldn't be assuming that the 'face/star' isn't noticeably involved in making 'major modifications' to a song. That applies to MJ Maddie Swifty or anyone you might mention.

 

[P. Aaron]

I've always thought Bowie was another interesting case - from what I can tell, his guitar playing was never really stellar, more like strum-along folkie, and he tinkered on piano, but he had a very clear vision of what he wanted to make musically. And not just "simple pop stuff" either, he got quite sophisticated at times, theory-wise. I wonder if any video of any of his recording sessions survives...

Listen to the underpinning of Heroe’s, it’s a Booker T & the MG’s Time Is Tight style groove.

 

[MichelD]

I used to play with a local singer songwriter who just had pages of lyrics and really cool melodies to them but didn't play a chord instrument at at.

She had a real cool lounge/torch/punkabilly style.

I tried to help her on acoustic guitar but I do not have a musical enough ear or chord knowledge on guitar to have been much help except on the simple rockabilly songs. We eventually met a better guitarist and the songs fell into shape.

But really, what we had to start with were words and melody.

 

[fdeck]

I wonder if the rules for assigning "credit" were whatever was customary in contracts during that time period. For instance, historically, the copyright for a song covers only melody and lyrics, which is why you can share chord changes for free. There were no authorship rights for harmonies. If a specific bass part was written and performed, then there would have been rights for that arrangement and recording, but I don't know how that would have translated into credits on the albums.

I know from reading some of Carol Kaye's writings, that who got credit on recordings was influenced by the standard union contracts. A lot of the people who were involved in those processes were satisfied to take home their paycheck.

From what I've read, Captain Beefheart didn't read music, but he meticulously composed the parts for "Trout Mask Replica" and made John French notate them for the other musicians to play on the recording.