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How did Madonna and Michael Jackson write their songs?
- Thread starter ElectroVibe
- Start date
I think both did.
Voice is also an instrument, and if you're sitting next to a pianist and telling him how the music should sound, you're essentially speaking to a transcription machine.
I've done a huge amount of arranging and orchestration, and that may contribute mightily to a hit recording, but it's not really all that integral to writing the song, sorry. Don't mean to downplay my role. Listen to the Supremes' rendition of "Keep me Hangin' On" and then listen to the same song by Vanilla Fudge.
There are a LOT of iconic intros, bass lines, riffs and sounds that are brain worms and that help us instantly identify a recorded piece and even the era in which it was recorded. But along comes another artist and changes all the periphery and suddenly we've got a new hit in a new generation, but (you knew this was coming) the song remains the same.
From about the same era as Michael Jackson and Madonna, I remember an interview with John Christ, back when he played for Danzig, and was asked how it works that Glenn is the writer but doesn't play an instrument. He said that a lot of it was Glenn calling him on the phone and humming riffs for him to transcribe, and sometimes Glenn would also bang out a few chords on guitar.
I've also worked with a singer who wrote songs on piano, and before she went to college she didn't know any theory. She once asked me what the chords to one of her songs were, because somebody wanted to cover it and asked for the chords. Kind of a variation on the same theme.
I've also worked with a singer who wrote songs on piano, and before she went to college she didn't know any theory. She once asked me what the chords to one of her songs were, because somebody wanted to cover it and asked for the chords. Kind of a variation on the same theme.
FWIW: Wiki states that when Madonna started out in NYC she was a "drummer, guitarist, and vocalist in the rock bands Breakfast Club and Emmy", plus there are plenty of YouTube videos showing her playing guitar in some of her live performances.
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You feel "de-skilled" because someone used a different method of songwriting than whatever you use? Not that the song sounds like it has any sort of heavy Fairlight CMI presence on it.
Boy George supposedly came up with the basic idea for the song while vacationing in Egypt. However it was written the songwriting credits for the song credit the other members of Culture Club along with Boy George.
If you want to hear some hilarious stories about Madonna and Jacko's recording (as opposed to songwriting), I recommend Guy Pratt's book "My Bass and other Animals", in which he relates Jacko hid under the desk for the entire session and Madonna screeched "Time's money - and the money's mine!".
I have been in the music industry for my whole life, and my brother is a perfect example of where songs come from. He is a record publisher, and he seeks out young unknowns for their song writing skills, and puts them up at a computer and tells them to write music. Then he takes half of whatever the songs can make. This was true of Eminem's tune "The Real Slim Shady". While working with DR Dre, my brother found this 18 year old kid and promised him $30K per year to just write songs. Well, the kid came up with that song, they got Eminem to perform the tune, and the rest is history. My brother made 2 million for the publishing and the kid made 2 million for the writing. That kid was Mike Elizondo who now is well know in the music industry, but back then, he was just a punk off the streets. This is how so many artists get their songs. They do not write them. Unknowns often do. Those unknowns can rise the be major players if the stars align.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t it the melody and lyrics that are what are copyrighted? So as long as they come up with those they can get full credit. I have also seen pics of them at piano or keyboard.
Yeah, some people are just musically (as opposed to technically) talented - and playing an instrument may or may not have any bearing on that. One of the most gifted songwriters I know has zero notion of music theory. He can accompany himself on guitar but his main strength is that he can come up with catchy melodies like no one else I've ever worked with. It's incredible. He'll just come up with stuff on the spot, during a rehearsal or live show - whatever - and it'll be catchy. He can do the same with parts for instruments that he doesn't play. The guy's an idea factory in a way that even very developed instrumentalists often aren't.
Yeah, this pretty much, whether one likes it or not. You could even say, and I might, that not only is arrangement not integral to composition, but the composition is precisely that thing that remains recognizable when pretty much all the original arrangement is changed or replaced. The composition, in other words, does not depend on an arrangement but, in fact, survives rearrangement.
Imagine a guy playing "Billie Jean" in a coffeehouse using just an acoustic guitar and his own voice. No drums, no bass, no background vocals, no slinky electric rhythm guitar, no strings, not even any MJ hoo-hoos. He's not even trying to suggest the bass riff, just playing chords. But he's singing the right words with the right melody (allowing a little room for interpretation), reasonably competently. Would we still recognize the song? Yeah, we would. That's the composition right there--the element that allows you to recognize the song even in a totally different arrangement. It doesn't matter in the slightest which arrangement was "original," or which one we like best; the composition is the composition, and the arrangement is the arrangement.
Remember for copyright purposes the "song" is the lyric and melody. The instruments behind it are just arrangements. Think of heavily covered songs like 'My Way' or Beatles songs that have been done in Jazz or Metal styles. Different chords, different instruments etc. but still the same lyric and melody.
Writing a lyric and melody only requires a voice. It is also possible to vocalize instruments like a bass riff.
Writing a lyric and melody only requires a voice. It is also possible to vocalize instruments like a bass riff.
When I think of Billie Jean in my head I sure ain't hearing some bassline (can't even think of it at the moment unless I were to bring it up on YouTube), I'm hearing the lyrics and the melody that goes with them.
A former bandleader of mine was considering giving a song to another local band after they had gotten signed to a label. I said "Wait... you'll get nothing?" He said "Yeah, that's label rules, it's the only way I'd get my song on their album. My name will still be on it". He was looking to add to his CV as songwriter.
Publicity without pay, small/flat pay without publicity... both are lame, but we all know the industry sucks.
Henry McCullough quit Wings early on because he was appalled with Macca's lack of musical knowledge.
Henry said Macca's rehearsals included directions such as, "Now here you can play that pretty chord."
Henry said Macca's rehearsals included directions such as, "Now here you can play that pretty chord."
Look and see if Carol Kaye is ever listed as a song writer on The Beach Boys tunes, and many many others. Not a chance. Studio musicians may add, write, tweek, and help define a song, but in the end they are hired guns to do a job...
Raphael Ravenscroft didn't receive any credit for his clarion call of a sax intro to Baker Street and it's a huge part of the song, it's just the way of the world in session life.
