How did we survive before digtal editing???

[Ric5]

Beato is a smart guy, but the idea that rock music has been “ruined” because DAW’s exist is dumb as hell.

Some absolutely incredible rock music is being put out right now.

But the good music is not auto tuned and quantized

 

[DJ Bebop]

The good side of digital.

My grandson was 5 when I started to show him a DAW and an external mixer.
By 6 he could boot up the computer, turn on the mixer, plug in a mic and make a track, he likes to sing

He's 11 now. He can work with drum loops, play a little keyboard, sing and shows the kids in the neighborhood
how to do what he's doing

 

[Lowandfat]

We learned our parts.

 

[MDBass]

But the good music is not auto tuned and quantized

No disagreement there, but’s that’s not what his clickbait video title is saying.

 

[wraub]

One of my gigs is a daily FM radio show, and without digital editing I'm not sure how I'd get it done.

 

[And I]

Huh... I can't imagine he edited only the one track on the 2"... I've sync'd two machine together in the past, going to assume that's how he skinned that cat. I was on a session back in the say, it took over 30 edits for a 2 minute song to get the drums in time. The drummer was so awful that she couldn't play the song if the other musicians were playing along with her. She cut all the tracks without the other band members. Unreal... they were on Warner Bros.

He also flew the kick and forth between 1/4", did the edits there, then flew it back. But yes, if 2" tape is 24 tracks, 1 track is 1/12th inch. Kick being track one, measure 1/12th and cut just that.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

I just rescued two bass tracks from my band's upcoming new album through a little judicious editing magic. I hated to cheat but I hated to throw otherwise good tracks away over a couple of minor clams even more, so a little nudge closer to the beat here, a cut and paste there, and my tracks are now golden and completely seamless in the editing. If I didn't tell you, you'd never know. Did have to recut one because it was easier than editing, but I've saved two so far. Only 5 more to go, then everyone else can go to work. Ask me how badly I feel over doing it...

HINT: Not even a little.

But it makes me think of how miserable tape editing was. I've never done it myself but I've seen engineers do it, and it's a giant pain in the ass to sit there endlessly rolling the tape across the head till you're positive you have the right edit point, cut the tape with a single edged razor, then tape it to another piece of tape and hope that your tape job holds up through mastering. And God forbid you run one too many bounces, lest you ruin sound quality. It's as mind-numbingly slow a process as you think it is, too.

Miss the days of tape? I sure don't miss that. I also don't miss the cost of tape.

I don’t know... but we did!

 

[garp]

I was gonna say some other stuff, but I’ll merely mention that I’m still tracking and mixing analog. It imposes many demands that are worthwhile for me to have to meet.

Me, too. I own a DAW but it doesn't get involved until I absolutely need it to.

 

[40Hz]

Beato is a smart guy, but the idea that rock music has been “ruined” because DAW’s exist is dumb as hell.

I think his issue was more about excessive quantizing than DAWs per se if I’m thinking of the same video.

Quantizing is bad enough. But IMO all the pitch correction that’s now being routinely applied to vocal tracks (and during live performances) is far worse.

 

[MDBass]

I think his issue was more about excessive quantizing than DAWs per se if I’m thinking of the same video.

Quantizing is bad enough. But IMO all the pitch correction that’s now being routinely applied to vocal tracks (and during live performances) is far worse.

The title of the video is “how computers ruined rock music”: that’s the clickbait nonsense idea that I’m referring to.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Jim Bonnefond, who engineered Celebrate and went on to produce a bunch of stuff for Kool and the Gang, taught at the recording school I went to. He told us how on Celebrate, the drummer wasn't used to the 4-on-the-floor thing yet (they were a funk band before that record) and couldn't keep a steady kick drum. Jim ended up splicing just track 1 of the 24-track 2" tape to move the kick drums around and line them up in time. Probabl an hour or less of work today I don't remember how long he said it took.... days I'd guess... worth it considering the success of the song!

I know Jim - he’s my mates Dad. Top bloke.

 

[40Hz]

The title of the video is “how computers ruined rock music”: that’s the clickbait nonsense idea that I’m referring to.

Yeah. Maybe it’s a little on the clickbaiting side. But I suspect it may have gotten more people to watch the video. Because I’m now noticing how a lot more musicians suddenly seem to be discussing and reassessing the excessive amount of quantizing that’s being applied to pretty much everything these days. So no harm done IMO.

FWIW, I don’t always agree with Mr. Beato’s position on things. But overall, I think he’s pretty spot on with most of what he’s saying. And I think he absolutely nailed it with that video regardless of its title.

 

[Ghook]

Great thread !!

 

[JimmyM]

That's insane. I can't fathom chopping up an original 24tk master without a copy, and if you're making a copy there are smarter ways to edit... or better drummers to hire

I was reading once about David Gilmour and Roger Waters of Pink Floyd having a really big argument about a single drum fill while making The Wall, and they ended up flying in only a drum fill from a previous take right into the 24t. Gotta be really good to do them, but some of those engineers were magicians.

100% that’s why vinyl sounds so good

If you say so I'll take CD or Flac files any day of the week.

 

[JimmyM]

But the good music is not auto tuned and quantized

Some of it is. Good music doesn't stop being good music because of how it was recorded. Now some auto tuning on some songs is very bad, indeed. But if I don't hear it, then I don't know it's happening.

We learned our parts.

And you never made any clams at all once you learned them, I'm sure

Me, too. I own a DAW but it doesn't get involved until I absolutely need it to.

Must be nice...kind of

 

[40Hz]

If you say so I'll take CD or Flac files any day of the week.

A good recording is a good recording regardless of media. I still prefer the softer sonic quality you get with an LP. But if it’s going to be digital I’ll definitely take FLAC (or even an uncompressed WAV file) over MP3 or any of the other lossy formats.

 

[JimmyM]

A good recording is a good recording regardless of media. I still prefer the softer sonic quality you get with an LP. But if it’s going to be digital I’ll definitely take FLAC (or even an uncompressed WAV file) over MP3 or any of the other lossy formats.

I don't mind well made MP3's that are 256k or better. I'd rather have that than a record, too. Speaking of which, CD's used to cost twice as much as records, and now the opposite has happened. Go figure!

 

[delta7fred]

I've edited 1/4" tape with a razor blade and don't miss it one bit, give me digital every time.

I record all band rehearsals on a hand held recorder and edit them using Audacity. Any new songs that we did multiple takes of with different arrangements etc I will often use a quick and dirty razor blade technique to patch together a definitive copy that we can all practice to.

The beauty of that is that if you get a join that sounds like a truckers gear change just press control Z and try again.

 

[frankie5string]

People also forget the amount of agonizing that went into editing. Often artists were absolutely aghast at the thought of chopping that 24track (or heaven for bit 47-track) master up. Many times, the artists had to be taken out and the edits had to be done without their knowledge because they could be so insulting to the artists.

I can't remember who it was, it might have been Van Halen or some other cock-rock group, who retrieved old 24 tracks from the vaults only to find a master with TONNES of splices and no record of what was actually spliced out.

Stuff got even weirder when we began using Sony 3324 and 3348 DASH digital machines. Theoretically you could edit with a blade on those, but they had a really nifty way of using in-built memory, a spare empty track and automatic shuttling of the tape back and forth to automate the cut-dub-past-dub process.

 

[And I]

I know Jim - he’s my mates Dad. Top bloke.

Indeed! He was a good teacher and good guy.