I have played bass for a year and a half. Six months ago, I joined a self-proclaimed beginner band figuring that with a year of bass experience, I should start with a beginner band. I am not a beginner musician, and my musical background is in classical violin plus a few years of guitar lessons. I have hit the woodshed consistently since picking up bass and in my mind the instrument chose me and not the other way around. My goal when showing up for rehearsal is to play my part note-for-note. Six months in, our timing as a band still needs improvement. We are playing with click tracks through IEMs with individual IEM mixes for everyone. Our drummer and one of our guitarists are not quite staying on the click track and sometimes miss things like transition bars of 2/4. I like all of the band members personally and everyone brings a great attitude to rehearsal. Is there any way I can help fix these timing problems? I want to play shows and gigs and I feel that some of us are individually ready to do that, but we are simply not ready to play out as a group until fixing these timing problems.
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How do I help bandmates improve timing?
- Thread starter Elijah N
- Start date
Does playing with simpler pieces yield similar results? Like if you guys decided to cover Brainstew or In Bloom, would they still have timing issues?
Asking just to narrow down if it's fundamental timing, or just with certain pieces. If it's just those/harder pieces, then woodshedding or staying on it should yield improvement. If it's fundamentally bad timing....yeesh, might wanna start shopping around
Asking just to narrow down if it's fundamental timing, or just with certain pieces. If it's just those/harder pieces, then woodshedding or staying on it should yield improvement. If it's fundamentally bad timing....yeesh, might wanna start shopping around
You don't. Sorry to say this, but they have to fix it.
when i read the thread title, "get a drummer who can count" came to mind. but after reading the OP, "get a drummer and a guitar player who can count" is probably better advice.
but if they can be taught: teach them! good luck!
but if they can be taught: teach them! good luck!
I suppose the first step is make sure that the others are aware of the fact that there are timing issues. If you want to be diplomatic about it you might try recording a rehearsal. Identify spots where the timing is shaky and then play those back to the band at the following rehearsal. Ask, "Does everyone else hear what I'm hearing?". The responses to that alone will give you an idea of how sensitive the others are where hearing time is concerned. If no one else hears it then you're probably in trouble. But if they agree that the time could be tightened up then you can begin looking at solutions.
As far as actually improving timing is concerned, I think the next thing to do is for each individual to identify their timing tendencies. Some people are simply all over the place, but a lot of people have specific tendencies. I, for example, have a tendency to get excited and to rush. But since I know this about myself I can temper that impulse and keep the time more steady. The best way to identify one's tendencies, I believe, is to record oneself and then listen back critically. Self-analysis is much more difficult to do in real time. Record and listen back. It's also often the case that certain patterns (be they rhythmic or technical) might be more difficult for a player to execute in time. So, again, if a person is able to identify these tendencies he can more easily tighten them up.
As far as actually improving timing is concerned, I think the next thing to do is for each individual to identify their timing tendencies. Some people are simply all over the place, but a lot of people have specific tendencies. I, for example, have a tendency to get excited and to rush. But since I know this about myself I can temper that impulse and keep the time more steady. The best way to identify one's tendencies, I believe, is to record oneself and then listen back critically. Self-analysis is much more difficult to do in real time. Record and listen back. It's also often the case that certain patterns (be they rhythmic or technical) might be more difficult for a player to execute in time. So, again, if a person is able to identify these tendencies he can more easily tighten them up.
I'd try turning up the volume on the click track.
Additionally, I've always been taught that one job of the bassist is to keep the time. The drums should be listening to you, so you stay with the click track like your life depends on it.
Additionally, I've always been taught that one job of the bassist is to keep the time. The drums should be listening to you, so you stay with the click track like your life depends on it.
The big questions come first:
Do the others recognize the issue?
Are they actually interested in improving?
If the answer is no then it really doesn't matter what you do next, it's not going to work. There are lots of ways to improve your time both as an individual and as a group, but it takes commitment.
Assuming they are interested, the easiest thing to do is record rehearsals and listen back with a judgement-free conversation on when things aren't quite right. Playing along to to a record can also help, as it really spotlights when someone isn't where they are supposed to be.
In the end everyone has to do their homework. If you woodshed with your metronome every day and nobody else does then eventually you're going to pick up on stuff they are missing, and you'll have to decide whether to pace yourself to match them or move on to other people with a similar level of commitment to yours.
Playing to a click when you rehearse as a group is probably a mistake, unless you plan to play to a click when you perform. It’s very difficult for a beginner drummer to stay locked to a click while also keeping track of structure and transitions.
Dancing. Not joking. It heavily involves feeling the beat with anticipation. Electronic music is perfect due its simplicity in rhythm.
Unfortunately I have to agree. If your drummer can't stay in synch with a click track you're screwed.You don't. Sorry to say this, but they have to fix it.
However, let me ask you this: What happens if you all ditch the click track? Does everything just go off the rails, or is the band able to find the groove amongst themselves?
Put a metronome into each of their Christmas stockings.
Too many adults reach adulthood never actually having listened to where the beat is, felt it in their body, and acted in time with the beat. Even some who can [sort of] play musical instruments. I'm not sure if this can be remedied. They simply cannot hear where the beat is. They can't be taught to dance, they can't be taught to drum.
The click track is useless here for one simple reason: your bandmates don't recognize the relationship between the clicks and the music.
Ditch the click track.
First get the guitar player in check.
If your bass line is syncopated, simplify. Play the root on strong beats and dominant on weak beats in the meter. Ask the drummer to do the same.
When you play simple, when the guitar player goes off time, he'll immediately hear that. Once that happens, he should have his a-ha moment and understand where you're coming from. Once that falls into place, then you can start putting more variety into the rhythm (bass and percussion).
Ditch the click track.
First get the guitar player in check.
If your bass line is syncopated, simplify. Play the root on strong beats and dominant on weak beats in the meter. Ask the drummer to do the same.
When you play simple, when the guitar player goes off time, he'll immediately hear that. Once that happens, he should have his a-ha moment and understand where you're coming from. Once that falls into place, then you can start putting more variety into the rhythm (bass and percussion).
At this stage,as a band, the focus should be finding the groove and playing in sync. No click, no iems. Focusing too hard on the click can actually screw up your time. Dancing (just moving your body) while playing will also help.
First of all, I agree 100% with 31 Hz. This problem is theirs, not yours, so my advice is not to take it on.
Second, and admittedly more harshly, those guys are holding you back. My decades of experience prove that it's very easy to de-skill oneself when playing with others who are way below one's own level. For you specifically, IMO it's way past time to cut ties and find another band, but this time with players who are equal to or better than you.
This is my question too. Playing to a click is a skill in of itself, might be too much for the whole group right now until they get more confidence and more practiced. If they're not willing to try things to improve the groove then yeah, they're not your guys. Time signature changes are fundamental, though ...
Remove all the inears. Play in the same room quietly enough not to trash your hearing. When the beat is wobbly, stamp a leg. The trouble with IEM and click for inexperienced bands is that people play against the click, they push/pull against the click whilst ignoring each other and everyone is feeling different pull/push grooves. IEM tends to make people play quite insularly - you might be surprised at how much eye contact immediately appears if you remove the IEMs.
I’m a fan of IEMs but not for beginner band practice where people are learning to gell together.
Also, voice memo record your ‘best takes’ of a song you’re rehearsing and send it on a group chat. This works well if you are all keen on it and not trying to blame any particular person.
Good luck - it’s a doable fix with the right set of attitudes.
I’m a fan of IEMs but not for beginner band practice where people are learning to gell together.
Also, voice memo record your ‘best takes’ of a song you’re rehearsing and send it on a group chat. This works well if you are all keen on it and not trying to blame any particular person.
Good luck - it’s a doable fix with the right set of attitudes.
