Update: our singer and lead (more experienced) guitarist both left the group. In the singer's words, we kept getting songs to 70% done and not getting past that, which is a very reasonable and probably overly charitable perspective from a non-instrumentalist describing the difficulty of singing over bad timing. My diagnosis of the same "70%" thing being the bad timing. Anyway, the group is now a power trio with vocal duties assigned to our rhythm guitar player. I have been striving for some constructive criticism about timing and identifying where people are rushing or dragging, and I have realized that I am the only player hearing and identifying these problems. With me pointing out these problem areas, the trio is making rhythmic progress in rehearsal but remains a long way off from being gig-ready. The trio is still a good hang even if musically unfulfilling, so I think I will stay in the trio for now but also start some more projects including one with our former singer.
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How do I help bandmates improve timing?
- Thread starter Elijah N
- Start date
You're halfway there. Get with the Singer, recruit the Guitarist if you can and find other musicians. Put your effort into that.
Ditch the Trio.
If you're really enjoying the hang, feel free to keep jamming with them, but don't expect anything. They've had 9 months to get ready to gig. If they aren't ready by now, they will probably never be.
The chair is key, during a proper whipping session, you will want to sit down and rest every so often
Personally, I find iem's 'off putting ', at the best of times. Maybe try no iem's, and no click. My drummer dose use a visual flashing click for his count in, and since he has, 'we' are definitely more consistent throughout a 4 hr gig.
I disagree with this part, if the timing issues are as severe as the OP suggests. A click isn’t forgiving….there’s no doubt when someone gets out of time. I agree with turning UP the click a little. Also, try recording a practice, then play it back so everyone can here. Say something like, “WE seem to be getting off time on this part here.” That way there’s no defense response from the individual players. Once things are fixed with a click track….then you practicing without a click could be helpful. In one way you are lucky, because MANY musicians won’t play to a click track….and a lot of them won’t because they’re timing isn’t good.
How bad is bad...?
Everyone should be able to maintain time or they aren't really ready for a band.
And they individually are responsible for being able to do that.
I hate it when I have to reign in the drummer...and no one else even notices it.
If you do notice time..you/they need to fix it.
Everyone should be able to maintain time or they aren't really ready for a band.
And they individually are responsible for being able to do that.
I hate it when I have to reign in the drummer...and no one else even notices it.
If you do notice time..you/they need to fix it.
I'll never understand musicians who don't count. I was in a band briefly that had a drummer that didn't count and would actually get upset when I would try to count with him to explain parts. A drummer is key to signal transitions. If they don't count, it's never going to work. Good luck. I, personally, get tired of fighting with musicians to get parts right. I've been in plenty of situations with cats who have no business being in a band.
I'm a drummer who once worked at Fred Astaire dance studio giving dance lessons and dancing in competions and exhibitions. As a team we taught many students with two left feet. We succeeded in teaching everyone how to find the first beat of the measure and how to count through the song. People with natural rhythm thought they knew how to count without practice and at times this prevented them from being corrected when they were offbeat. Pair the beat offender with another band member and have them count through entire songs together paying close attention to the 1st beat and last beat of the verses and chorus. Then have the drummer and bassist play a short turnaround fill at the end of each set of 4 counts of 4 or 4 counts of 8 depending on the song. Make sure they can back up to the first beat of the last verse or chorus after a mistake instead of the top of the song. Don't practice the song until everyone has mastered the skill. Pretty soon you will recognize the difference between a tango and a swing. It's easy!!!!
I agree.
I'm assuming OP's Mates are 'Full grown adults', not 13yr olds? (or at least not NEW to the instrument). I suppose I could understand if they just "started" on the instrument, but if they've been playing for let's say.. a 'year', you should have timing down Good enough to not be messing up (timing) durin the songs.
If we're talking about people who have played with other musicians before, and they still can't "Hear timing", at least when OTHER people are keeping said time, I'd just move along (or, move THEM along). If they don'y have it by now, they [most likely] ain't gonna get it.
I'm sure there's exceptions, but I'm speaking "in general".
Basically just rambling at this point... not sur what I was originally gonna comment, but here we are.
I see timing problems with new bands all the time.
People learn their parts at home, then band practice or performances just end up sounding like each musician playing their part in a bubble.
My suggestion is having some practices split in two.
having only a drummer and bassist practice together is quite important to me. Almost every young/new band is loose as can be, with almost no pocket awareness or sync between the bass player and drummer. If you get the vocals, guitars, keys, songwriters and other distractions (boyfriends and girlfriends) out of the room, the rhythm section awareness will likely improve almost immediately.
The other band members may also benefit by playing with each other in a quieter setting where it's easier to communicate over the din of a fiddly drummer.
Once the rhythm section is together, bring the whole band together; Don't build on a shaky foundation.
People learn their parts at home, then band practice or performances just end up sounding like each musician playing their part in a bubble.
My suggestion is having some practices split in two.
having only a drummer and bassist practice together is quite important to me. Almost every young/new band is loose as can be, with almost no pocket awareness or sync between the bass player and drummer. If you get the vocals, guitars, keys, songwriters and other distractions (boyfriends and girlfriends) out of the room, the rhythm section awareness will likely improve almost immediately.
The other band members may also benefit by playing with each other in a quieter setting where it's easier to communicate over the din of a fiddly drummer.
Once the rhythm section is together, bring the whole band together; Don't build on a shaky foundation.
Can they sing their parts? Like can the drummer go 'boom bap, boom boom bap' in time with the song? Same with the guitarist with the rhythm of their riffs.
If they can't, then, that's your biggest problem, they haven't internalised the time and it should probably be addressed before building chops or learning more parts on the instrument.
If they can sing in time, then it's a mechanical issue that requires woodshedding. Are they getting lessons?
If they can't, then, that's your biggest problem, they haven't internalised the time and it should probably be addressed before building chops or learning more parts on the instrument.
If they can sing in time, then it's a mechanical issue that requires woodshedding. Are they getting lessons?
