How does the radius clause affect you?

[Dougflores]

So my band just played a show this past Saturday at one venue and we have another one this Friday at another. Turns out the promoter for the Friday show is throwing a fit because of the radius clause. We weren’t supposed to play two weeks before or after the Friday gig. They didn’t even give us an actual radius, just “no playing two weeks before or after. We’re all local bands it’s never been brought up before. And we’ve done this before without any complaints. This time the promoter is acting like we just bankrupted them because we played a show before theirs.

I understand where they’re coming from, but as a couple of guys hungry to get our name out there it is a tad frustrating that our passion and drive is bogged down by a promoter’s tantrum. Our solution is to pack the house and prove to them that it shouldn’t matter when we can get them customers to their venue, which we’ve done every time we’ve played there.

Moving on from my venting, has anyone else dealt with this? How do you feel about this radius clause concept? I may sound entitled when venting about this but I figured I’d share my thoughts.

 

[Lo-E]

I’ve never run into it anywhere but I doubt I’d agree to something like that if it were proposed.

Did your band agree to such a clause? Is it in writing?

If you’re packing the house every time you play it seems that the promoter needs you more than you need him. Regardless, though, if you agreed to a radius clause the promoter has every right to be upset and/or hold you to it.

 

[Dougflores]

I’ve never run into it anywhere but I doubt I’d agree to something like that if it were proposed.

Did your band agree to such a clause? Is it in writing?

If you’re packing the house every time you play it seems that the promoter needs you more than you need him. Regardless, though, if you agreed to a radius clause the promoter has every right to be upset and/or hold you to it.

I believe it was in the initial email when we first played there years ago. So I guess technically it is in writing, but what bugs me is why now and not the other times when we.ve done the same thing? But yeah I guess moving forward we need to be wary of it if they're gonna start cracking down now. Thankfully they're still letting us play so we'll just make it up to them with a good show!

 

[bholder]

I’ve never run into it anywhere but I doubt I’d agree to something like that if it were proposed.

Did your band agree to such a clause? Is it in writing?

If you’re packing the house every time you play it seems that the promoter needs you more than you need him. Regardless, though, if you agreed to a radius clause the promoter has every right to be upset and/or hold you to it.

I'm pretty sure an email is not a legal "in writing" binding legal document. If you didn't have to sign your agreement on a physical piece of paper, it doesn't (legally) exist. Though I'm not a lawyer (thank God).

 

[Winslow]

I'm pretty sure an email is not a legal "in writing" binding legal document. If you didn't have to sign your agreement on a physical piece of paper, it doesn't (legally) exist. Though I'm not a lawyer (thank God).

Performance agreements are generally more involved, but y'know all those "Click here to accept" terms and conditions to any online service you've ever signed up for (including this one)? Legally binding, despite not being signed on paper.

 

[bholder]

Performance agreements are generally more involved, but y'know all those "Click here to accept" terms and conditions to any online service you've ever signed up for (including this one)? Legally binding, despite not being signed on paper.

Ugh - true enough - but in a plain email? If OP didn't have to do something to indicate agreement, there's no agreement.

 

[Winslow]

Ugh - true enough - but in a plain email? If OP didn't have to do something to indicate agreement, there's no agreement.

That would be the question to be argued, yes.

Things that could be claimed to indicate agreement could include replying to the email (indicating that it had been read), accepting the booking in some electronic way, or just saying "Cool, bro! See you then!" and showing up.

This is how Judge Judy et al get litigants!

 

[Dougflores]

That would be the question to be argued, yes.

Things that could be claimed to indicate agreement could include replying to the email (indicating that it had been read), accepting the booking in some electronic way, or just saying "Cool, bro! See you then!" and showing up.

This is how Judge Judy et al get litigants!

The email also contained backline info, load in times, set times etc... It was more of an overall informative email that we wouldn't have gotten without accepting the show in the first place. We just get the email and show up the day of the shop. So I doubt the promoter would resort to any legal action (especially when all they wanted was a minimum of 25 tickets sold, I'd just pay it out of pocket at that point ). But we're showing up anyway and proving to them that we can hold our end of the bargain even with playing other shows nearby.
But I guess to stay on the safe side it'll be something to keep an eye out for in the future to avoid burning any bridges.

 

[mrcbass]

I haven't encountered this concept and I don't gig enough where it would be a problem.

I can see where a venue would care, but don't understand why the promoter does.

But I'd be inclined to keep the community happy. You must need the promoter (since you hired them in the first place) so keep them on your good side - or do as you wish and book your own gigs.

 

[Ggaa]

Played a room in the 70s that would charge you 50 bucks if you plugged any of your gigs at another club. We just plugged them off mic.

 

[Killing Floor]

How would the promoter incentivize you for the gig you would have voluntarily missed? Are they offering to compensate you for 2 weeks of gigs?

And if what you said is true, that YOU pack the house, said promoter is merely a formality.

 

[Spidey2112]

We just recently scheduled/confirmed a gig for late November, at what I consider a very cool and upcoming venue for live music here in central Ohio... I'm thinking it's not something which will affect us (this year, anyways), but it was listed in their venue info sheet they sent out:

"-We schedule [at least] 8 weeks between scheduled dates for returning artists, with no more than 5 shows per year (unless otherwise requested by the venue)*."

*As stated, I'm sure they make exceptions... see $$$$.

 

[Discount Bassy]

Ask if they believe in the Insanity Clause.

 

[Medicine Man]

We are pretty small time, but Ive had good luck getting local venues to waive radius clauses in the contract, if you ask them before you sign. They are understanding of the fact that we play in the local market, ymmv. If you didnt sign anything, who cares about some db promoter's feelings. Those guys are just parasites off other people's talent.

 

[Altitude]

If you signed an agreement with a radius clause in it, it really doesn't matter whether the clause is reasonable. It's a constraint you agreed to.

But it sounds like the promoter mentioned it in an email and you didn't necessarily respond or agree. Appears the promoter presented it as a notion and is now upset that you aren't abiding by his notion.

I'd explain to the promoter that you saw the radius clause in the email, but you didn't agree to it (provided that is true). You're either open minded to having that kind of thing in your promotion agreement or you aren't, but if you are then you'd have to nail down the details, including the actual radius.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Ask if they believe in the Insanity Clause.

Chico Marx: “there ain’t no sanity clause”.

Riis

 

[DirtDog]

So my band just played a show this past Saturday at one venue and we have another one this Friday at another. Turns out the promoter for the Friday show is throwing a fit because of the radius clause. We weren’t supposed to play two weeks before or after the Friday gig. They didn’t even give us an actual radius, just “no playing two weeks before or after. We’re all local bands it’s never been brought up before. And we’ve done this before without any complaints. This time the promoter is acting like we just bankrupted them because we played a show before theirs.

I understand where they’re coming from, but as a couple of guys hungry to get our name out there it is a tad frustrating that our passion and drive is bogged down by a promoter’s tantrum. Our solution is to pack the house and prove to them that it shouldn’t matter when we can get them customers to their venue, which we’ve done every time we’ve played there.

Moving on from my venting, has anyone else dealt with this? How do you feel about this radius clause concept? I may sound entitled when venting about this but I figured I’d share my thoughts.

I've heard mention of that across the years, but never had it brought up as a deal-maker/deal-breaker.

If a venue had put that restriction on us (when I was playing), I would have counter-offered that they needed to put us on a retainer for those weeks that we couldn't work within the radius. Just to have fun with the discussion.

 

[MCS4]

I might be missing something here, but it seems totally logical to me that a venue would be upset if they gave a band a gig that was conditioned on a radius clause and the band turned around and violated that clause.

I can only speak to the music scenes I've played in, which primarily consist of local original rock/metal scenes in various cities, but it seems to me that it is universally understood that playing another local show too close in time and location can cause a drop in attendance at one or both shows. This means that a fair amount of politics and etiquette can go into the process of selecting gigs if you are lucky enough to have multiple options. I will admit that I cannot ever recall actually being asked to agree to accept a specific radius clause in order to get a gig, despite having played countless local original shows over the years, but I don't know why anyone would expect that they could just disregard such agreement if they did make it.

 

[abarson]

Ask if they believe in the Insanity Clause.

"You can't fool me. There ain't no sanity clause!"

 

[brianrost]

A radius clause whether there is an actual contract or not, is not uncommon at larger venues. For bars? I think I've heard of one or two over the years.

If there is a period of time being requested the venue at least owes you a radius. I've heard some rather unreasonable ones, like 200 miles...in the state of Massachusetts that eseentially means anywhere in the state plus parts of the five neighboring states No specified radius or too large a radius, no deal.

The longer the period you are not supposed to play is, the narrower the radius should be. I was in a band that played once a week at a bar in Cambridge, MA with no cover. We couldn't get gigs anywhere else in Boston or Cambridge that charged a cover because of that. So we worked at no cover bars or out in the suburbs instead, no big deal.

Dougflores, you should have contacted the promoter as soon as you saw that in the email and asked for specifics about how faraway any gigs had to be in that four week period.