If there isn't a radius in the radius clause, then how can you ever be sure you are complying?
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How does the radius clause affect you?
- Thread starter Dougflores
- Start date
Not a lawyer. Verbal agreements can be construed to be a contract.
However, I do have lawyers that have looked over my contracts for my day job over the years. A “radius clause” is essentially a noncompete clause. In my state (and maybe or maybe not yours), they are NOT ENFORCEABLE at least over the long term. If the venue wants to pay you not to play, that’s a different deal entirely.
I do not think that one line in an email for a different gig years ago would rise to the level of either side making an agreement.
Their worst nightmare is you not showing up.
p.s. there is a legal principle that says contracts aren’t contracts unless there is an equitable exchange of some kind. I don’t remember what it is called. Telling you that you can’t play anywhere for any money two weeks prior would not meet that standard. Can a real lawyer sound off?
However, I do have lawyers that have looked over my contracts for my day job over the years. A “radius clause” is essentially a noncompete clause. In my state (and maybe or maybe not yours), they are NOT ENFORCEABLE at least over the long term. If the venue wants to pay you not to play, that’s a different deal entirely.
I do not think that one line in an email for a different gig years ago would rise to the level of either side making an agreement.
Their worst nightmare is you not showing up.
p.s. there is a legal principle that says contracts aren’t contracts unless there is an equitable exchange of some kind. I don’t remember what it is called. Telling you that you can’t play anywhere for any money two weeks prior would not meet that standard. Can a real lawyer sound off?
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When I was in the folk band, certain organizations would give us a radius clause, such as no other gigs within a 60 mile radius. It did make packaging a mini-tour harder, but given the type of places we played (small concert venues) I could see where they were coming from.
I have never dealt with that on the local scene, though.
I have never dealt with that on the local scene, though.
I would call those "terms" and suggest that agreeing to play under those terms is an agreement to accept those terms.
I don't support the concept of "radius" and wouldn't agree to those sorts of terms. It's just another way that venues and promoters try to keep musicians from actually working.
However, I do agree with the principle that playing too often in the same town will deplete your audience. The solution to this used to be that we'd play a rotating schedule where we'd hit different small towns every three months or so, so that we wouldn't saturate any one area. But you have to be able to travel to do that, and you also have to be smart about how you book your own schedule. This really shouldn't be a venue's thing to police, but the fact that too many bands don't book smart means that it affects them.
It's a lot tougher nowadays. I am not sure what the solution is, but this is part of why I play in so many different bands.
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Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
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Play the gig, but do not promote it whatsoever or play it under a different name. Something really silly like “the plywood pollywogs”
And here I thought there was a ban on specific fretboard radius.
George Clinton had a solution to that problem. His band would play a venue one night as Parliament, then play the same venue the next night as Funkadelic. Same players, different setlist, reduced touring costs.
That's another way to do it, but you have to sell two brands, which isn't always easy.
That’s what I was thinking of when I “liked” Smooth_bass88’s posting, but IIRC the Clinton ruse was more about record contracts than venue contracts. Still, it’ll work.
Besides all the other fine points here, I wonder what state this was in. This what's know legally as a non-compete or restrictive covenant. In California, that would quite possibly be invalid.
According to the California Business and Professions Code Section 16600, “every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void.”
According to the California Business and Professions Code Section 16600, “every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void.”
An agreement enshrined within an email or even a chain of emails may constitue a contract if all the elements of a contract are present, those elements generally being: an offer, consideration, acceptance, and a meeting of the minds as to the terms of the agreement. Parties must have capacity to enter into contracts (i.e. not be children, comatose or lunatics) and the terms must of course be legal (a court won't enforce a hit contract.)
I don't know the statutory scheme re: contract law and noncompete agreements of each and every state so I won't comment too far in that regard, but don't make the mistake of believing that emails cannot or do not constitue contracts or that the consideration agreed to by the parties needs to be "equitable" -- if you want to trade me your house for a sock, I suppose the argument could be made that the contract is voidable because you're insane and thus lack legal capacity to enter into contracts to begin with, but typically courts will not subsitute their judgment for that of the parties with respect to the agreed-to consideration.
I cannot comment on OP's specific situation since I haven't read these emails from years ago and don't know which state he's in. A radius clause without an elucidated radius, i.e. an actual delineated distance from the contracting venue, may be unenforceable for vagueness; vague contract terms are interpreted by courts against the draftsman, who in this case I would assume would be the venue/promoter/whomever since they no doubt came up with and insisted upon the radius clause to begin with.
PERSONALLY.... if I played in a band and some local dillhead "promoter" wanted to hoot and holler and stomp his feet over a situation this small, I'd have two words for him :} The chances this idiot promoter is going to cast into jeopardy his/her ability to hire bands in the future by actually suing one of them are slim to none, realistically speaking. Many dogs bark; few actually bite. I wouldn't worry about it. But, I might tell this promoter person that I want to revisit any contractual agreements going forward for a better-defined "radius clause."
I don't know the statutory scheme re: contract law and noncompete agreements of each and every state so I won't comment too far in that regard, but don't make the mistake of believing that emails cannot or do not constitue contracts or that the consideration agreed to by the parties needs to be "equitable" -- if you want to trade me your house for a sock, I suppose the argument could be made that the contract is voidable because you're insane and thus lack legal capacity to enter into contracts to begin with, but typically courts will not subsitute their judgment for that of the parties with respect to the agreed-to consideration.
I cannot comment on OP's specific situation since I haven't read these emails from years ago and don't know which state he's in. A radius clause without an elucidated radius, i.e. an actual delineated distance from the contracting venue, may be unenforceable for vagueness; vague contract terms are interpreted by courts against the draftsman, who in this case I would assume would be the venue/promoter/whomever since they no doubt came up with and insisted upon the radius clause to begin with.
PERSONALLY.... if I played in a band and some local dillhead "promoter" wanted to hoot and holler and stomp his feet over a situation this small, I'd have two words for him :} The chances this idiot promoter is going to cast into jeopardy his/her ability to hire bands in the future by actually suing one of them are slim to none, realistically speaking. Many dogs bark; few actually bite. I wouldn't worry about it. But, I might tell this promoter person that I want to revisit any contractual agreements going forward for a better-defined "radius clause."
Bill Graham enforced a radius clause of sorts in New York back in the day. Any artist who played the Fillmore East was free to play any other booking within 50 miles. Except he’d never book them at the Fillmore again. No contract necessary.
If you are a consistent draw and always sell over their minimum covers your should renegotiate or take your talent elsewhere.
Chances are the "promoter" has some other nit to pick with your band, eg: they is in a band that can't get a gig or do not draw as well as yours.
Chances are the "promoter" has some other nit to pick with your band, eg: they is in a band that can't get a gig or do not draw as well as yours.
Thanks everyone for your input. Yeah I definitely agree that if it was a term we should have respected it. No doubt about that. What bothers me is they chose this instance to get all riled up about it and not the other times we’ve booked similarly. And to the extent of their tantrum, making it seem like we destroyed their career. There was no specific radius and telling a band to not play for basically a month without any incentive is wild to me. Lessons learned and The show will go on but we’ll definitely be more wary of how we approach this promoter if any other opportunities come by.
If your band is good and has a following, bars dont like to loose the your crowd to another bar close by. It's an unwritten rule.
I believe he did that in San Francisco as well. I remember being told that an artist I liked who could easily have filled a mid sized club in SF was playing a bar in the middle of nowhere in the Central Valley "because of f*ckin' Bill Graham", but never understood how or why.
We had a promoter hit us with that a few years back. We politely responded "Our apologies, please feel free to replace us on the bill."
No response, gig went just fine.
That's what I'm saying. Sometimes, you just gotta call the bastard's bluff.
