How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?

[Chebass88]

what makes good wood or bad wood? What is tonewood? How can you know HOW a specific piece of wood will affect the sound?

Going back to my original question, how do you decide which wood is good for a bass and which one is bad for it?

How is a question like this feeding trolls? There ARE real answers to this question.

In an ideal situation, you would know characteristics of each type of wood, i.e., how vibrational energy is dispersed through that particular species or piece of wood. From that, you would know how that affects the timbre of the string vibration, and could successfully choose whether to use it for a bass or not.

There HAVE been studies regarding the acoustical properties of woods (some from 1969 - this isn't brand new research!):
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It is possible to execute acoustical studies for woods commonly used in an electric bass. However, this would take a significant effort to correlate this data with realized electric bass 'tone', and IMO, is not necessarily feasible given the electric bass market & customer desires. A bass manufacturer (production or boutique) would have to spend a CONSIDERABLE amount to execute this research & given their output of basses - there would not be an immediate return on investment. It isn't as if this is critical information, either. A bass manufacturer can build almost anything & we'll buy it & love it to death, so why spend money on that level of fundamental research?

imp.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Does choice of wood make a difference that couldnt otherwise be made with pickups and a parametric EQ?

Im not sure that it does. For me, my ideal bass would have a fairly bland, even tone that I could cut out the bands I dont want and boost the ones I do. I reckon switchable pickups and a good amp would give me all the tonal options I would want.

Ive only formed this opinion from playing a lot of basses in shops, so I may be wrong with what sounds good on stage.

Just my opinion, but its my ideal bass so there

Hey, if bland is what you want, it probably won't be too hard to acheive.

In the meantime, IME it's a heck of a lot easier to get some sounds right off the bat vs. trying to dial them in.

Can you dial in the new sound of a set of stainless steel strings with EQ? Not IME. There's a difference.

 

[frankenp]

Here's how the Peavey Cirrus custom shop markets their wood:

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It's all about selling the look and weiight.... very vague on tonal possibilities.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Here's how the Peavey Cirrus custom shop markets their wood:

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It's all about selling the look and weiight.... very vague on tonal possibilities.

Great. And...?

Maybe you should've looked at their body wood descriptions.

 

[jweiss]

Great. And...?

Maybe you should've looked at their body wood descriptions.

Yeah that's pretty damn funny

Here is the description of the body woods:

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[frankenp]

Yeah that's pretty damn funny

Here is the description of the body woods:

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Whoops sorry.....I just realized I was looking at the tops. I wish they had mp3 examples of their body definitions.

 

[erikbojerik]

For me, my ideal bass would have a fairly bland, even tone that I could cut out the bands I dont want and boost the ones I do. I reckon switchable pickups and a good amp would give me all the tonal options I would want.

Dang...you're starting to sound like a guitar player!

 

[Mikey R]

Dang...you're starting to sound like a guitar player!

 

[pilotjones]

Does choice of wood make a difference that couldnt otherwise be made with pickups and a parametric EQ?

Im not sure that it does. For me, my ideal bass would have a fairly bland, even tone that I could cut out the bands I dont want and boost the ones I do. I reckon switchable pickups and a good amp would give me all the tonal options I would want.

I feel this is short sighted, because the tone of a plucked string is not a fixed spectral balance, nor is it a fixed amplitude. It isn't even a fixed spectral balance with an amplitude envelope imposed over it. It is a complex, time-varying spectral balance: the amplitude of each harmonic varies, differently, over time. So, you can't simply apply an EQ to one "tone" to turn it into another.

If that were possible, it would be merely a matter of proper EQ to make a P sound like an upright, or an upright sound like a Modulus.




All the mechanical bits of the instrument (the strings, body, hardware, neck, your belly pressing against the back) contribute in some manner and to some extent to the way the the string vibrates over time. But the nature and the amount of effect by each element is what's always up for debate. Add to that the general similarity of one species of tree, combined at the same time with the difference of boards even from a single tree, and you have fertile soil for opinion.

 

[Mikey R]

I feel this is short sighted, because the tone of a plucked string is not a fixed spectral balance, nor is it a fixed amplitude. It isn't even a fixed spectral balance with an amplitude envelope imposed over it. It is a complex, time-varying spectral balance: the amplitude of each harmonic varies, differently, over time. So, you can't simply apply an EQ to one "tone" to turn it into another.

Hey Pilot,

I totally agree here - a large part of perceived tone is due to the time varying content of the note - thats what we mean by 'punchy'.

What I was saying in my rather flippant comment above (appologies there!) is that if the acoustic signal of the bass is pretty much in the middle of those I would want, then I can dial either way to get the exact tone Im after.

Typically with a little middley grunge.

I dont want to lug a load of basses to a gig, I like to just have two (standard tuning and drop D).

If that were possible, it would be merely a matter of proper EQ to make a P sound like an upright, or an upright sound like a Modulus.

Hey, thats cheeting: we're talking here about solid body bass guitars constructed from wood. Bass guitars typically sound like bass guitars, uprights sound like uprights. But put a P pickup on a J, and it will start to sound quite a lot like a P.

Strings are a different issue.

All the mechanical bits of the instrument (the strings, body, hardware, neck, your belly pressing against the back) contribute in some manner and to some extent to the way the the string vibrates over time. But the nature and the amount of effect by each element is what's always up for debate. Add to that the general similarity of one species of tree, combined at the same time with the difference of boards even from a single tree, and you have fertile soil for opinion.

Yep. They all contribute, theres loads of parameters to play with, wood is only one




Doh, that was supposed to be a quick reply.

 

[powerbass]

i don't mean to stir the pot but - i read an article somewhere about the effects of sound vibrations on wood cell structures - apparently the more sound vibrations wood experiences the better it will transfer those vibrations. Some violin and acoustic guitar makers will place instruments near music speakers as a way of increasing the vibrational "seasoning" of the wood. THe article also said the relative moisture content of the wood determined the stiffness of the wood cell walls which can contribute to the transfer of sound vibrations. All this points to some people's obsession with old/vintage instruments and old wood or old instruments sounding better. There has been some research on Stadivarius violins that has focused on the wood and the finish/varnish used as the reason the instruments sound the way they do. If this wood vibration theory is correct then a newly made bass will sound different from an older bass even if the same species of wood, design and electronics is used.

 

[Psychicpet]

same reason why a spruce topped acoustics sounds much better with age


which is fact and not fiction.

 

[pilotjones]

i don't mean to stir the pot but - i read an article somewhere about the effects of sound vibrations on wood cell structures - apparently the more sound vibrations wood experiences the better it will transfer those vibrations. Some violin and acoustic guitar makers will place instruments near music speakers as a way of increasing the vibrational "seasoning" of the wood. THe article also said the relative moisture content of the wood determined the stiffness of the wood cell walls which can contribute to the transfer of sound vibrations. All this points to some people's obsession with old/vintage instruments and old wood or old instruments sounding better. There has been some research on Stadivarius violins that has focused on the wood and the finish/varnish used as the reason the instruments sound the way they do. If this wood vibration theory is correct then a newly made bass will sound different from an older bass even if the same species of wood, design and electronics is used.

Yes, but some of those concepts are also debatable.

I think that, as far as trying to age the wood of an electric guitar goes, that one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that if they're trying to replicate the tone of James Jamerson's or Jimi Hendrix' instruments, that these instruments were made of brand-new wood at the time they sounded so great.

 

[BassyBill]

Somehow over time we've gone from the wood is flat out voodoo thing to wood actually can have an effect on sound. Amazing. I didn't see that coming.

 

[dvh]

All the mechanical bits of the instrument (the strings, body, hardware, neck, your belly pressing against the back)...

All right! Time for an 'inny' vs. 'outy' debate!

 

[pilotjones]

All right! Time for an 'inny' vs. 'outy' debate!

Yeah, that could have an effect on the mid-hump® harmonic density ratios.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yes, but some of those concepts are also debatable.

I think that, as far as trying to age the wood of an electric guitar goes, that one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that if they're trying to replicate the tone of James Jamerson's or Jimi Hendrix' instruments, that these instruments were made of brand-new wood at the time they sounded so great.

Really? Based on what?

IIRC he didn't always have a new bass, he rarely changed his strings and I think he used mutes.

 

[Brad Johnson]

So I wonder if the old guard builders are still sticking it to customers with no cost options or those options actually could make a difference after all.

We'll see.

 

[Ray Holt]

So I wonder if the old guard builders are still sticking it to customers with no cost options or those options actually could make a difference after all.

We'll see.

Bob Benedetto doesn't seem to have any problem using 3-ply tops, backs and sides on his "Professional" series of guitars. It makes them better for gigging (Not as much to worry about with humidity and such) and even though models like the Bravo and the Bambino deluxe have f-holes and therefore SOME acoustic output, they're mostly electric guitars and once plugged in the lovely pickups that Seymour Duncan made for Bob do the work.

 

[pilotjones]

I think that, as far as trying to age the wood of an electric guitar goes, that one shouldn't lose sight of the fact that if they're trying to replicate the tone of James Jamerson's or Jimi Hendrix' instruments, that these instruments were made of brand-new wood at the time they sounded so great.

Really? Based on what?

IIRC he didn't always have a new bass, he rarely changed his strings and I think he used mutes.

Based on his "Funk Machine" being a '62 P-bass, and his most notable musical accomplishments taking place in the 60s. He wasn't playing an aged, vintage instrument; there weren't any vintage, 40-year-old-wood Precisions in the '60s. Having been first marketed in 1951, that would be an impossibility. The Strat was brought out in 1954; so even if Jimi happened to have had a first year of issue Strat at Woodstock, it would only be 13 years old.