How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?

[dvh]

Actually.... 15 (1969)

 

[black_labb]

may have missed it being said above, but imagine playing a bass where the instrument was made from sponge. you could imagine it sounding quite muffled. essentially it is how the instrument (material, shape ect) dampens frequencies differently. some timbers may dampen high frequencies more than low frequencies, giving it a boomier sound.

all the imperfections effect the tone as well. bridge attached to soft spot of wood, dampened sound to an extent ect.

i believe that the timbers effects are much less than people percieve them to be. i feel the body has the least effect on the tone, then the neck and then the fretboard being the most important.

i will be making a bass using australian timbers when i finish my current load of builds. i am going to try to avoid using anything that has been used before aside from small scale builders, and wont be looking at other builders builds for advice. i expect it to sound just as good as my other builds.

 

[LongHairFreak]

Larry Davis08-11-2008, 02:12 PM
These tone hammer-ins are fun to read until someone posts the 'absolute conlusive proof" they are right.

This tone stuff is the result of old guard builders and small company marketers who have accumulated stacks of "anointed" wood they need to peddle at a good profit. We often hear with our eyes don't ya know. ...and that's the absolute conclusive truth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rats! You mean I'm deaf too??

 

[erikbojerik]

Everyone knows that "tone" is in the fingers.

So I think this means you need to put wooden caps on your digits, and be very careful which woods you choose when you do.

 

[powerbass]

Wood properties and sound/timbre quality is a big subject. electric basses are not subject (generally speaking) to the strict tonal scrutiny that acoustic instruments like cellos, violins, acoustic guitars and acoustic basses are. Luther's who make these types of instruments are very particular about wood choice - what kind of wood, where it was grown, how it is seasoned etc. and for good reason too. Research has qualified that there are big variables in wood choice and ultimately how sound is transfered through the wood. This web site has some interesting things to say about violins
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/080701_violins.htm
As for new basses played in 1962 versus a 1962 bass played in 2008 there are huge variables listening to a 1969 recording of James Jameson playing and a live player today. All the electronic signal chain stuff, amps, speakers and recording equipment has dramatically changed since the 60's. Then there is the tone of the player which comes from their hands

 

[Ric5]

Saying that all woods sound the same is ludicrous.

Do all strings sound the same?

Do all amps sound the same?

Do all speakers sound the same?

Do all pickups sound the same?

Do all effects sound the same?

So of course maple sounds different than rosewood ... etc ...

 

[Psychicpet]

and pretty soon this thread should be coming back around the mountain to "wood doesn't make a difference"

 

[Brad Johnson]

Bob Benedetto doesn't seem to have any problem using 3-ply tops, backs and sides on his "Professional" series of guitars. It makes them better for gigging (Not as much to worry about with humidity and such) and even though models like the Bravo and the Bambino deluxe have f-holes and therefore SOME acoustic output, they're mostly electric guitars and once plugged in the lovely pickups that Seymour Duncan made for Bob do the work.

That's interesting. The pickups do the work... and nothing else?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Based on his "Funk Machine" being a '62 P-bass, and his most notable musical accomplishments taking place in the 60s. He wasn't playing an aged, vintage instrument; there weren't any vintage, 40-year-old-wood Precisions in the '60s. Having been first marketed in 1951, that would be an impossibility. The Strat was brought out in 1954; so even if Jimi happened to have had a first year of issue Strat at Woodstock, it would only be 13 years old.

Jamerson sounded great for a pretty long period of time. His bass wasn't brand new that entire period of time. It aged. Unless you're setting an arbitrary time frame on the term

And if you really get down to it, was it Jamerson's bass that sounded great... or Jamerson? I'd go with the latter.

As far as Hendrix, care of the instrument can a factor. How many times did he leave his in bad weather, the trunk of a car, etc. That affects aging.

 

[Brad Johnson]

and pretty soon this thread should be coming back around the mountain to "wood doesn't make a difference"

Yep... it was all a sweet, sweet dream.

 

[Marcury]

If wood did not have an effect on the sound, then a banjo should not have a distict sound and scale length should not have an effect on B-string "tightness", and flat wounds should sound like round wounds and solid brass basses should sound like basses from balsa wood. I personally think it is ludicrous that one might think that specific woods do not have an impact on the tone or "timbre" of an instrument. It has been my observation that wood not only has an impact on tone, but also sustain and resonance, which by the way directly result in tone perseption.
But here again, I guess I am just a small time profiteer that has huge amounts of "anointed" wood for sale.

Well most banjos are made of mostly metal and a skin (synthetic these days), and most older ones were made of gourds so...

 

[Rodent]

while this thread has been very entertaining, I think it's time to revisit the OP's initial question that got all this rolling:

How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?

so after six pages we've seen a lot of discussion that wood has the potential to impact the tone, but (whoa! that's a pretty big butt!) can anybody say with authority how exactly a specific piece of lumber or how a specific species of wood will impact the tone?

sure you can argue this and that about the potential that it may or may not have an impact, but I don't see anybody who can say with undisputed authority excatly how a specific wood species will impact the tone of an electric solid body instrument. it's simply not possible, as there are waaaaaaaay too many variables within the wood itself, let alone the other variables including

- construction methods
- electronics
- physical shape
- construction materials
- hardware
- etc, etc, etc ...


and so once again we sent a load of 1's and 0's across the internet to arrive at the universal answer each time this topic appears

- it simply isn't possible to determine in advance the exact specifics of how a wood species (or specific board) will impact the sound of a solid body electric instrument -


there is no universal cookbook that can be relied upon to produce extremely accurate tonal conclusions in advance of building the instrument and plugging it in. sure some can go out on a limb and make very loose generalizations that are about as accurate as the weekly horoscope in the National Enquirer, but these are not precisely accurate details that define exactly how the wood impacts the tone ... sorry.


thanks for the entertainment boyz

all the best,

R

 

[Larry Davis]

But here again, I guess I am just a small time profiteer that has huge amounts of "anointed" wood for sale.

No, Mr. Majestic you are not in the anointed wood group...not to worry, sir that's a narrow and select slice of the builder biz

 

[Brad Johnson]

while this thread has been very entertaining, I think it's time to revisit the OP's initial question that got all this rolling:



so after six pages we've seen a lot of discussion that wood has the potential to impact the tone, but (whoa! that's a pretty big butt!) can anybody say with authority how exactly a specific piece of lumber or how a specific species of wood will impact the tone?

That wasn't the question... was it?

sure you can argue this and that about the potential that it may or may not have an impact, but I don't see anybody who can say with undisputed authority excatly how a specific wood species will impact the tone of an electric solid body instrument. it's simply not possible, as there are waaaaaaaay too many variables within the wood itself, let alone the other variables including

What would you consider "exactly"? Are you saying a builder, very familiar with his own work, has no idea how one wood vs. another wood will affect his tonal/timbral outcome?

If so, I disagree. There always seems to be a need for some to act as if an absolute is being drawn from my side of this debate when that's not the case. Unless you're saying that say Mahogany and Ash in a generic, non-laminated build (just to keep hippie sandwiches from blurring the issue) don't have a general tonal characteristic... I'm not sure what your point is?

- construction methods
- electronics
- physical shape
- construction materials
- hardware
- etc, etc, etc ...


and so once again we sent a load of 1's and 0's across the internet to arrive at the universal answer each time this topic appears

- it simply isn't possible to determine in advance the exact specifics of how a wood species (or specific board) will impact the sound of a solid body electric instrument -

No, we didn't... that's a premise you decided to focus on. The thread is "How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses"... not "What will this specific piece of wood sound like in ANY build?"

there is no universal cookbook that can be relied upon to produce extremely accurate tonal conclusions in advance of building the instrument and plugging it in. sure some can go out on a limb and make very loose generalizations that are about as accurate as the weekly horoscope in the National Enquirer, but these are not precisely accurate details that define exactly how the wood impacts the tone ... sorry.

And sorry but if you build the same type of instrument a dozen times using one type of wood, change that one wood variable and the next dozen displays an obvious yet different timbre from the previous wood, go back to the previous wood and get the original result and you don't see that as anything more than a coincidence...

thanks for the entertainment boyz

all the best,

R

Same here. It's entertaining.

 

[Rodent]

That wasn't the question... was it?

I suggest you go back and read the very first post of this thread. this is exactly the question that was asked. for added clarity, you could also re-read the title of this thread (How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?) I dont' see any reference to acoustic instruments, and that the word "exactly" is used in both cases makes it pretty relevant to what the OP was seeking, eh?


any other misdirections you'd like to inflict on this conversation to keep it going?

R

 

[Brad Johnson]

I suggest you go back and read the very first post of this thread. this is exactly the question that was asked. for added clarity, you could also re-read the title of this thread (How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?) I dont' see any reference to acoustic instruments, and that the word "exactly" is used in both cases makes it pretty relevant to what the OP was seeking, eh?


any other misdirections you'd like to inflict on this conversation to keep it going?

R

Considering this started with your simple misdirection, that's rich. Again, since I quoted it before:

"so after six pages we've seen a lot of discussion that wood has the potential to impact the tone, but (whoa! that's a pretty big butt!) can anybody say with authority how exactly a specific piece of lumber or how a specific species of wood will impact the tone?"
Where did it exactly say anything about a specific piece of wood?

I suggest you take your own suggestion. Hell, I won't even make you look for it, here's the OP again... feel free to show me "specific piece of lumber" is in there:

"I've always wondered about this. As far as I can tell, the vibrations go from the strings to the pickups. The pickups pick the sound up by magnetic, not mechanical, means. So just where exactly do tonewoods come into play? Do pickups also perceive the vibrations from the wood around them?

For the record, I am not a builder and I don't know anything about woods or electronics, what I just wrote is what I'm guessing out of common sense but I could be entirely wrong. Let me know if that is so".

 

[Psychicpet]

people are still wanting to have the pi$$ing match of "you can't tell me that Alder always sounds this way and that Ash always sounds like this and a Maple cap will be like this"

when that's not even the question. the question was how does wood affect tone. and it's been more than established that the density of wood and the "make up" of a piece of wood affects the vibrations that travel through it. So that's how wood affects tone.

but I guess there are still those that feel like they don't get enough action out of kicking their own dog around the house that they need to come here and continue an argument.

 

[ThunderLizard]

Manu-
When you're playing your bass and look down to see some Zebra wood or Bubinga, you just naturally play better. That's the difference.
Plus Bubinga is kind of fun to say out loud.

 

[SDB Guitars]

<rant>

Good God... how can discussions that have been had dozens of times still generate this much heat? Neither side will convince the other, no matter how much empirical evidence one side or the other presents (and I've seen very little evidence actually presented in this discussion, mostly just opinion), neither side will give ground.

Does arguing really help things? Does it change the view some people have about different woods? I seem to recall Larry stating that in any given species of wood, you can have something like +/-20% fluctuation in density, hardness, etc., and if there is one person on here that I am certain knows wood inside and out, it's Larry.

I don't care what wood sounds like what. When I started playing 18 years ago, my first bass was a Squier II P-bass with a plywood body. You know what? It sounded like a P-bass. Taylor made an acoustic guitar out of oak planks salvaged from a shipping pallet, and people think it sounds good. IIRC, Bendetto made a knotty pine archtop, and it sounded good. Ray stated above that Bendetto is not opposed to using plywood on all sides of the soundbox in an instrument, and has no qualms about it sounding good.

I wish that people would stop trying to guess what wood sounds like, and if they want to know, record the sounds of identically designed and constructed basses with a variety of different woods, and examine the waveform. That will *show* you empirically the differences. Not what one person thinks they hear as the difference, but what the recorded waveform *shows* is the difference. Until someone is willing to go to that expense, I think that they should just let go of the "magic tonewood" discussions.

Okay, I'm done. Flame away.

</rant>

 

[Georynn]

Good God... how can discussions that have been had dozens of times still generate this much heat?

I'm surprised nobody has lost an eye or a limb, during one of these...