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How far would you lower standards?

I don't usually play with people who aren't around my skill level. I'm breaking my own rule playing with a good friend of mine in a band where the drummer isn't very good. However, we have a great singer, great song selection, the crowds like us and we have bookings out to August. I'm trying to help him improve and he has made good progress over the last couple of months. I wouldn't do it for a group of strangers though.

It's hard because the drummer for my main band is a killer drummer with perfect time. We locked in during the first song of my audition three years ago and no matter how tight we get, we try to get a little tighter.
 
Well who's going to be left to play with if I rule out those who aren't as good as me? :D
+1

I fronted a trio for about 7 years. I played with a lot of bass players that weren't as good as me and as a bass player I've played with some guitarists that weren't as good as me. As long as they are 'good' and can cover the parts, I'm happy. It shouldn't be a competition, especially in your own band.

It reminds of that John Lennon quote about Ringo, "Best drummer in the world? He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles!"
 
I cut my teeth playing weekly open mic blues jams when I was 17. I had no idea what the twelve-bar blues progression was, so you could say I got thrown into the fire early. The older guys in the house band were patient enough with me and one was cool enough to just write the progression out on a cocktail napkin for me that after a couple nights I got the hang of it pretty well, well enough to the point that when the house bass player retired from the Air Force and moved they offered me the position. And though I've since moved on to improv fusion/jazz jams I think it would be a disservice for me to scoff at a player for not knowing his stuff, especially since I'm crap with music theory, so I would pay it forward and help the dude out. You never know, that person might be a really quick learner and end up being a pretty solid player like how I ended up.
 
Let me assume you are not a newbie on bass.
Let me assume you are pretty damn competent.
Let me assume you have even made a living at some part of your life with your instrument.

What would your minimum standard of competence be for other players for you to want to play with them, even just jamming ?

Example: Lets say you said, "Lets jam around in Dm.". And then it was evident, that say perhaps the guitarist, did not really know what Dm was. In fact all you got was, "Oh, I just play by ear." And then you realize he just ain't cuttin' it. Would that hack you off?

I mean, I understand playing with someone just to improve their prowess on their instrument may be charitable for a while, but I think that will wear very thin (probably pretty quickly) unless you are there as an instructor of some sort.

What do you think?
I think I understand exactly what you're getting at. My answer is that I agree with you. Yes, that gets old, fast.
I'm to the point in my playing where if someone is that incompetent on their instrument, it's not even fun to try jamming with them. Even if they can play in time, and keep a solid riff going, they essentially don't have a sense of structure. In order to communicate musically with others, even jamming, you have to be speaking the same language (literally). And playing with someone who is THAT novice at their instrument is like trying to have a deep, meaningful conversation with a child that's just learning how to make sentences. You find yourself asking "why the hell am I even doing this?"

It's much like communicating with people in regular life; if they don't even know how to speak the same language it's going to be very difficult and frustrating to try getting your points across. In the exact same way, understanding at least BASIC musical conventions and theory is crucial, once you're at a certain point. That's why musical conventions exist in the first place, so that people can play together without ending up on completely different chords/keys/rhythms. It has to be organized. If someone doesn't understand that, or even know how to navigate a chord progression, in rhythm, there's basically nothing I can do with that person. They are a musical child and I'm an adult.

The sad part is that most people who "play guitar" are like this. They often don't know what key they're in, if you were to quiz them. They know a few chords, maybe they have decent rhythm and they can chop out some basic leads, but they are completely lost when you throw anything besides a blues progression at them. Playing with people like that gets really boring, really fast. The sad part is that's MOST guitar players.

The nature of things is: the better you get at your instrument, the less people exist that are going to be on your level. This makes finding a band of great musicians all the more valuable. It's a rare commodity.

I'm still searching for people to start a new band with. It's been about 2 years. If I was half the musician that I currently am, it would be a lot easier to find a group.

Heavy lies the burden of being highly skilled.
 
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Let me assume you are not a newbie on bass.
Let me assume you are pretty damn competent.
Let me assume you have even made a living at some part of your life with your instrument.

What would your minimum standard of competence be for other players for you to want to play with them, even just jamming ?

Example: Lets say you said, "Lets jam around in Dm.". And then it was evident, that say perhaps the guitarist, did not really know what Dm was. In fact all you got was, "Oh, I just play by ear." And then you realize he just ain't cuttin' it. Would that hack you off?

I mean, I understand playing with someone just to improve their prowess on their instrument may be charitable for a while, but I think that will wear very thin (probably pretty quickly) unless you are there as an instructor of some sort.

What do you think?

Funny you ask, I have been jamming with different guys and trying to put a project together. Have a friend of mine who wanted to jam real badly and I wanted it to work, but he just isn't good as a drummer as I need (I don't need a god, but I need great pocket, timing and feel). Doing A&R in the past, I have put bands together, so I know what to look for and what I need in order for something to succeed, so I have certain criteria.

I also sit in on jazz/funk jams. That can be interesting. I've played with monsters and played with guys who can't improvise over an Amin7 vamp. Usually those are run so at least one guy up there is a host so I have somebody solid to lock in with .

I have goals I am working to achieve so it would wear thin for me to play with a beginner. But if I was more of a teaching type, I would see it as a great opportunity to show someone music.
 
There's a clear diffrence between playing with people who are below your playing level and playing with people who picked up a guitar to impress girls. When I was in college my band started to fizzle out so I was looking for any opportunity to play music. I was friends with a guy who was in a fraternity and they had parties at their house and he also had a hookup at a local college bar (his fraternity brothers pretty much ran the place). I agreed to play with him because it was a chance to play with a drummer again and they all seemed like a cool bunch of dudes. The drummer was probably the most talented guy out of all of us but he immediately saw through the bs that was about to ensue. It was 2/3 guitarists (depending on if the "lead singer" wanted to play guitar as well) myself and a drummer, a pretty standard 5-piece. I found out one of the guys had just picked up a guitar because he wanted to be cool in front of sorority girls. Another guy bragged about how he was in a band and he had ties to a $10,000 live stage setup. I stuck through it because I just wanted to play music. Then, we all plugged our instruments in and started playing. One guitarist didn't know what keeping time was, the guy who just started could barely play a power chord, and the singer... well he couldn't sing. The drummer never came back to a jam session and we exchanged some pretty similar facebook messages about how the "band" was gonna go. I still stuck with it because the thought of regularly playing college parties (frats charge guys $5 at the door and we would get a cut) and college bars had me sucked in. Then the singer told us the setlist he wanted us all to learn for our first show. Fade to black by Metallica, Killing in the Name of by RATM, Sweet Child O' Mine by GNR, and another song that was equally as random as the last 3. This was 2012 lol, no college student going to the local college bar would want to hear any of those songs when there is usually a DJ spinning pop and hip hop tracks all night. They could not grasp this concept and kept telling me that all these songs were great songs (I agreed because yeah they all are haha), and I eventually left because the lack of common sense and reason was just not there. These guys fantasized about being rockstars and didn't have the mind to go with it.

Eventually they hit me up again, kicked out the guy who had just recently started playing, and were still looking for a drummer. I told them that if we were to play rock at a college bar, it had to be 90s alternative/pop punk/punk rock, with a few pop covers thrown in. They agreed but once again things fizzled out because I just couldn't stand playing with a group of people this clueless.

That situation was the only time I couldn't work with someone because of their "talent level". I've jammed with plenty of people who weren't as "good" as me but they were still a fun time.


TL;DR
I played with a bunch of rockstar wanna be frat bros who had no concept of musicianship so I bailed (twice), but I still have fun playing with people no matter what their level of talent is
 
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sure, I will jam with just about anyone for an hour or so. especially if they are buying the beers.
if I'm having fun, then sure, no problem. As long as we can do something that sounds good.
Not like in a band situation though, unless said person has good bookings that pay well.
Then sure, I will play along and try and make the band sound good.

If the person is extremely talented in some way, then I may stick around just to see what happens. You never know...if the material is strong but the playing is weak, well, that can be tweaked a bit...
 
A very open ended question, but........

If you can play and make people believe you know what you're doing, you can count me in. However, if you truly suck--sorry, I'm not your man.

Like someone else already mentioned, if you don't know what "Dm" is, it's over before it starts. I don't expect you to be able to read music, but at the very least you should have an elementary understanding of music theory as it applies to your instrument so that we can speak the same language. I'd like to be able to say "...it goes to the iim chord there..." and not " put your fingers here, here, and here, and play that chord."

If you suggest a tune, I expect you to know it from beginning to end, not just the intro--and then hope that the bass player will teach you the rest....if I even happen know it. In other words---know the material that you claim to know.

Also, I won't play for free. Not anymore. No "audition" gigs, no goodwill gigs, no favors. I don't do it "for the experience"....those days are over. I'll do charity gigs if it's for something I believe in (like homeless kittens), but if the charity is you and your beer drinking buddies local hangout, forget it.

EDIT: I should also add that I love playing with people who are waaay better than me, and yes, I adhere to my own rules.
 
Let me assume you are not a newbie on bass.
Let me assume you are pretty damn competent.
Let me assume you have even made a living at some part of your life with your instrument.

What would your minimum standard of competence be for other players for you to want to play with them, even just jamming ?

Example: Lets say you said, "Lets jam around in Dm.". And then it was evident, that say perhaps the guitarist, did not really know what Dm was. In fact all you got was, "Oh, I just play by ear." And then you realize he just ain't cuttin' it. Would that hack you off?

I mean, I understand playing with someone just to improve their prowess on their instrument may be charitable for a while, but I think that will wear very thin (probably pretty quickly) unless you are there as an instructor of some sort.

What do you think?

I say don't be a music snob. Look at many of the famous musicians of today. Many don't even know what it means to be in DM or E or even A. They just know, okay this chord sounds good with this chord, and if we do this hammer-on here that brings it together and etc. I have bands to use as examples but know that would upset some people.

If you want someone at a certain caliber then look for that person. For instance I do okay if not good some days on the bass. But I will tell you if Zac Brown Band wanted a new bass player today I wouldn't even try for their music ability intimidates me.
 
Sorry if say the guitar player doesn't know a Dm chord and relies on only their ears..I'm out. To me you have to have a decent knowledge of your instrument and know common chords to play effectively as a group.
I'm am not music theory guy. I have just basic knowledge like scale's and call out a chord progression or chart I can play it. If ask me to play the Lexmolxin scale (made up) I will...go...Duh???
Tell me its a shuffle, a 1-4-5 with turnaround ..great! Tell me to play an Em9th diminished...I will play E :laugh: I'm not above anyone musically and feel below average and mediocre at best.

I have played with theory and classically trained people but you have to know the basics or we are not going far.
 
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Sorry if say the guitar player doesn't know a Dm chord and relies on only their ears..I'm out. To me you have to have a decent knowledge of your instrument and know common chords to play effectively as a group.
I'm am not music theory guy. I have just basic knowledge like scale's and call out a chord progression or chart I can play it. If ask me to play the Lexmolxin scale (made up) I will...go...Duh???
Tell me its a shuffle, a 1-4-5 with turnaround ..great! Tell me to play an Em9th diminished...I will play E :laugh: I'm not above anyone musically and feel below average and mediocre at best.

I have played with theory and classically trained people but you have to know the basics or we are not going far.

For the record, I personally heard BB King say: I don't do chords.
 
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