Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
How is Cliff Burton overrated?
- Thread starter Tupac
- Start date
I get why some people see him as overrated. To me, he wasn't really a great bass player, a but a decent bass player in a great band. I really believe that on Kill 'Em All, Ride The Lightning and Master of Puppets you could remove the bass track and have a pretty similar sounding record. In my eyes, he's kinda the Ringo of Metallica.
Metallica - For Whom The Bell Tolls (1985, Day On The Green) - YouTube
When Cliff hits the wah (About the 20 second mark) Try and tell me you can distinguish between the notes. You can't. It's just noise.
And I admit that on MoP his tone was a bit bassier. But with the distortion, that might honestly be worse. It's like a big fart. And it still sounds like a dog running on a hardwood floor.
I dunno, I think that's unfairly diminishing his songwriting influence, which I think was a far greater contribution to the band than his bass playing.
Maybe I have better ears than you. Sounds like notes to me. What? You told me to try to tell you I can distinguish between the notes. I can, so it was easy to tell you that.
How much do you play on distortion and wah? I've used it a couple times, for some stuff that's challenging, and I can tell you from experience that if you screw up, it definitely doesn't hide it. It makes it much, much worse.
I actually really like his tone on Ride and Master. My only problem is that he's not high enough in the mix. People like different sounds. Why is this a difficult concept?
I don't think that is distortion he's using on MoP, rather a combination of him using the OD channel on his amp and the studio not rolling back on his gain; it wasn't so bad during parts which required a cleaner tone (Orion, Sanitarium, MoP interlude). He had a very dark, thumpy tone on MoP with some slight mids which was devoured by the guitar's heavy low end. The studio just did a crap job at mixing it all in. I have to say though that RtL, when mixed right, sounds pretty damn good when the bass is a bit more prominent. Cliff held back a little more on MoP and used more bass in his EQ'ing, and his basslines suffered for it.
Yea, but Cliff played a role in songwriting...I'm not sure to what extent, but that goes a long way in the whole 'overrated?' argument, especially with a band that's the magnitude of Metallica.
This. I tried to play along with some live Metallica tracks awhile back. Songs I knew backwards and forwards. Playing along with the live performances was a complete disaster - I really don`t know how the rest of the band gets by with Ulrich. It was damn near impossible to follow him, and as a result, on playback my track sounded like total manure.
+1
I think his style was (call it sloppy if you want) also part of his stage presence. Very free and loose, and I think he would've got a lot better if he'd lived.
I bet more people would be playing aria's instead of shecter's if he did lol.
Did you seriously just use a 5 second solo run as an example of why Burton is overrated?
It dosent matter if Cliff is overrated or not. He made some great music when he was here and inspired tons of people to pick up the bass. He's a legend for a reason and deserves to be. He may not be the best or most perfect player but he was doing something different in a time when shredders and synth were running wild lol. Im not a Metallica fan or really a Cliff fan but he was a big deal in his time and still is to plenty of people.
After playing with several drummers of differing calibers, I only respected Burton more for being able to handle, well, the rhythm section situation.
"Back then"? You make it sound like the Dark Ages...
If you had been on the planet "back then", you would know better than to post this statement. The late 70s and early 80s, in my observation, marked a MAJOR breakthrough for the electric bass, in multiple genres. Players like Paul McCartney, Jack Bruce and John Entwistle had already been making their mark for well over a decade. By the late 70s, players like Chris Squire, Jaco Pastorius, and Stanley Clarke were taking it all to unprecedented levels. Jaws were dropping all over the place. I know. I was there and I recall it all very vividly.
By the early 80s, it seems that monster bassists were everywhere, i.e. Mark King, Billy Sheehan, etc. As a result, the bass guitar has enjoyed a much more prominent role in rock, pop and electric jazz music ever since.
As for Cliff Burton, I think he's overrated only relative to the entire musical environment in which he lived and played - something that his many fans tend to conveniently neglect - IF they ever truly comprehended it in the first place...
MM
I grew up in the 80's. Let's be honest, no one talked about those guys. It was about Townsend and Clapton, etc. McCartney is much more identified as a songwriter than as a quality bassist. I was a huge metal fan and it was only after I started playing bass that I knew who Steve Harris was. Sheehan was the closest thing to Eddie Van Halen that bass players had and I bet only 1 of 5 could tell you who he was back then. Burton made it cool for metal and rock fans the same way the jazz guys made it cool for their genre. In my mind that's why he's so loved and copied. Because he made it cool. Same as what's his name from Kiss.
Getting the job with a well known band isn't enough, neither is dying young.
His basslines may be fun to play, but how well did HE himself really play them...(and, who came up with them?)
Maybe Burton is in fact AA+, not AAA like the fanboys make him out to be. Its OK tho guys, AA+ is still pretty awesome!
He was pretty much perfect (for Metallica),
I think he got the best tone and feel that was possible for those songs. I'd love to hear somebody 'try' to do better then him.
I think he got the best tone and feel that was possible for those songs. I'd love to hear somebody 'try' to do better then him.
How well can one really play songs when the drummer is not that great?
Of course he came up with them. You think the dude who made the band move 400 miles just so he'd consider joining them was going to be told what to play on his instrument?
I'd say that depends on the individual player
I've seen great shows where the bassist was fantastic despite of a less than great drummer.
As to the parts... I take your word for it.
