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How Long Should Getting a Band Off the Ground Take?
- Thread starter mancefine
- Start date
That's quite a story OP! I'm experiencing something totally the opposite. It's like I'm the only person in the band who doesn't have ADD.
The guitar player/singer just went to pick up the CDs for our first release from the duplicator. It is badly recorded demos recorded quickly with GarageBand by the drummer and guitar player before I joined the band.
When the topic of releasing them came up, I was against it, because the songs needed more work and had to be recorded better. But no one listened to me. Luckily, I haven't been asked for any money to cover the costs since it's all the guitar player's songs and I only contributed some words to a couple songs way after the instruments were originally recorded.
A graphic artist was paid to do the band logo. Another visual artist was paid to design the album cover. A producer friend of the guitar player was paid to mix the tracks. (None of these mixes were ever shared with me so I have no idea what this guy did.) And, the duplication package is full color digipak with color band logo printed on the discs! All of this for rough home studio demos!!!
OP, I hope this all works out for you. It's hard being the odd man out, but it sounds like you really like the music you are playing, and you are playing with quality musicians. Not to minimize your frustration but at least there is that.
In answer to your question at the end of your post about how long it takes for bands to get off the ground. For me, it's taking far too long. We've been rehearsing the same 9 originals and 2 covers for a year and a half. The only time something new happens is if the guitar player decides to trot out a couple of his jam ideas that never go anywhere or develop into anything because he won't take input or suggestions or consider any demo ideas that I bring in (even if they are based on his riffs). So, yeah I feel like our progress is as slow as molasses running uphill on a dirt road. Why does rock have to be so stooooooooooooopid!!!???!!!
And like others have said. Playing live is important. It's really going to be the big test. As much as I complain here in my post, we can hold it down live even with bad onstage sound and nothing in the monitors.
When you go into the trenches together and come out the other side still alive and smiling, it does give you some confidence and reassure you that all of the rehearsal has been worth something.
The guitar player/singer just went to pick up the CDs for our first release from the duplicator. It is badly recorded demos recorded quickly with GarageBand by the drummer and guitar player before I joined the band.
When the topic of releasing them came up, I was against it, because the songs needed more work and had to be recorded better. But no one listened to me. Luckily, I haven't been asked for any money to cover the costs since it's all the guitar player's songs and I only contributed some words to a couple songs way after the instruments were originally recorded.
A graphic artist was paid to do the band logo. Another visual artist was paid to design the album cover. A producer friend of the guitar player was paid to mix the tracks. (None of these mixes were ever shared with me so I have no idea what this guy did.) And, the duplication package is full color digipak with color band logo printed on the discs! All of this for rough home studio demos!!!
OP, I hope this all works out for you. It's hard being the odd man out, but it sounds like you really like the music you are playing, and you are playing with quality musicians. Not to minimize your frustration but at least there is that.
In answer to your question at the end of your post about how long it takes for bands to get off the ground. For me, it's taking far too long. We've been rehearsing the same 9 originals and 2 covers for a year and a half. The only time something new happens is if the guitar player decides to trot out a couple of his jam ideas that never go anywhere or develop into anything because he won't take input or suggestions or consider any demo ideas that I bring in (even if they are based on his riffs). So, yeah I feel like our progress is as slow as molasses running uphill on a dirt road. Why does rock have to be so stooooooooooooopid!!!???!!!
And like others have said. Playing live is important. It's really going to be the big test. As much as I complain here in my post, we can hold it down live even with bad onstage sound and nothing in the monitors.
When you go into the trenches together and come out the other side still alive and smiling, it does give you some confidence and reassure you that all of the rehearsal has been worth something.
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Perfection Paralysis. A tragic disease that will kill this "band" -- and be careful, it is mildly contagious.
OP you already know this is crazytown or you wouldn't have created this thread. Just leave them to their eventual demise, it's obvious they won't listen to you.
Oh, but wait. they're everything you ever dreamed of...? But they're not really quite so ideal, are they? Like finding the "perfect" mate who really isn't perfect, and not admitting it to yourself until you've wasted _____ years...
OP you already know this is crazytown or you wouldn't have created this thread. Just leave them to their eventual demise, it's obvious they won't listen to you.
Oh, but wait. they're everything you ever dreamed of...? But they're not really quite so ideal, are they? Like finding the "perfect" mate who really isn't perfect, and not admitting it to yourself until you've wasted _____ years...
I would say this back to them. What they hell are they waiting for then??!?! If not for fans/an audience, why else do most of us play an instrument in a band?! For ourselves! For the enjoyment of the instrument. Playing in a band of likeminded musicians is where its at for sure, but if you dojnt have that and still love playing your instrument, what do you do? You either wait and play in your room or you proactively seek out a band to play with. Then, what do you do next? Get that band out on a stage in front of an audience so they can enjoy what you and your friends created together as much as you do. Get people off on what you guys are doing, give them goosebumps like the music you listen to does to you.
If not for those reasons, whats the point?!?......
Try to talk your band into playing in front of people. I would start trying to book, but even if you don't want to get into promoting yet, open for a friends band or take an off-night at a bar just for the experience. Throw a party or something. First off, you need to see how your stuff plays on stage. Secondly, I guarantee after your recordings are "perfect" and you start playing out, you will wish you would have played certain things differently because of how the songs will evolve in the live setting. After you play a few times and get your CD and web presence ready, then have a big release party.
- Jul 7, 2013
- 255
- 64
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Orange Amplifiers and Spector Basses
Thanks for all the responses guys. Seems to be a general consensus. There are a couple more details that may be prudent to share. First, a big reason I think they are wanting to wait is that they think playing shows will be a distraction for finishing our full length. We have access to using a free multi-million dollar studio in July to track, so they want to make sure we are prepared. But again, I'm very worried about not having established ourselves and playing shows before diving into a full length. I can't seem to get them to see that playing shows would help us realize and see things that we may not ever see in the studio or in rehearsal. I also worry that we are putting all of our eggs into one basket as far as if people don't like our full length then we are screwed but if we put out a demo then we could make adjustments based off of feedback. Everyone in the band has been in multiple bands before, so it's not like we are show virgins. Everyone just has alot of bad experiences and I think it's making them over-cautious when we have a great thing going. Bottom line for me is, I see where they are coming from in a sense, as we spoke again last night and they assured me that we would immediately start playing shows once we finished recording, but I guess another issue I have is that most bands have to write new material while simultaneously preparing for and playing shows. Why should we be any different? And yeah, in my gut I really feel like they are severely devaluing the importance of playing shows for if nothing else to synchronize and unite the band both spiritually and musically. Everything just feels so business oriented that it sometimes feels like the art is being sucked out of it. Bottom line for me is, while I'm the odd man out in this particular decision (actually the drummer and I both want to start playing, but it's the guitarist and vocalist who are adament about this course of action), I love the music, respect my bandmates, and know that we all want what's best for the band. I just can't help but feel in my gut that we really need to play some shows and feel good about what we are doing so we stop second guessing certain things. The vocalist just keeps going on about how terrible it was that the drummer had a slightly cracked crash cymbal, and it seems like he thinks that there is this definition of "right and wrong" when it comes to art. The drums sound great, but he (the vocalist) likes all of these super, pristine, and IMO over-produced sounding bands where I like a more raw and passionate sound to my music. It's just growing pains, but I guess I just need to feel validated haha. The singer and the vocalist kind of steer the band and don't always want to change their mind. I guess I just haven't been able to summarize a good argument for why playing shows is so important.
The thing about the tiny crack in the one crash cymbal made my eyes spin... micro-managing much?
I always liked the maxim that the Album is merely a Flyer for the Show. A band isn't a band until it goes on stage; until then, it is just a project.
I always liked the maxim that the Album is merely a Flyer for the Show. A band isn't a band until it goes on stage; until then, it is just a project.
I dunno, I suppose I just don't get how there would be any benefit to waiting until after recording the album to play shows, when it is usually the live shows that drive album sales at the outset (rather than vice versa). I definitely get the concept that you don't want to waste the opportunity to record at a great studio, so I could see the concern if you really needed all the practice time just to be ready to record, but otherwise playing live is a great way to feel out songs. Aside from that, I've literally never heard someone argue that you should release a record before playing live... yet your bandmates seem to act like that is some kind of accepted wisdom.
Geezer Butler recorded the first Black Sabbath album using a cab with one of the speakers blown.
I've gotten calls to do gigs, walked into the venue and everyone met each other for the first time, and then an hour later we were a band 
I would never consider committing tracks to a recording without knowing how a real live audience (Or even better a lot of real live audiences) reacts to the tunes. You guys are setting yourselves up to spend lots of time, money, and effort on making the perfect album of music that absolutely no one has any interest in. If a song goes over like a fart in church, for the love of God, **** can it and write one that packs the dance floor every time you play it.
You really need feed back........
You really need feed back........
I agree with most about the situation. Recording is not even all that much fun for me, it's all about playing with the band. I've met musicians in the past that only really cared about the studio and it is a huge turn off for me. You really need to see if the band can float in live situations before going ahead and releasing a full length album. Write material, rehearse it, play it live. Once it is established head to the studio to document it over the course of a week.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I've gotten calls to do gigs, walked into the venue and everyone met each other for the first time, and then an hour later we were a band
That's pretty much it. Gig first, record second. I don't do the JimmyM professional thing, so I don't end up in a band after an hour, but if it's a band, you know it almost immediately and you start looking to play shows.
If it makes you feel better, they were all common knowledge jam tunes and standards and simpler stuff
On the other hand...
I'm not sure you're in a band in the sense most here would define it, but you are part of a studio recording project of original tunes. What becomes of these tunes - well, that's anyone's guess. Could just end up in the members' private cd collections or to show their friends.
Its a school project first and foremost - and if this is their career path, its a resume to their next job. I wouldn't see it much past that.
In this situation, they should be upfront and honestly pay the musicians they are working with for the tracks they are laying down.
I don't understand practicing 2-3x/wk for 6 months. Get a basic recording of the songs and go practice at home to each get your parts down. Meet up a few times per month to go over everything.
Are you recording your demo/album "live" - as the full band playing together? Or are you going to lay down the tracks piece by piece? (Ie record the drum parts one week, the bass parts the second week, etc)
Also you mentioned "seniors" - so in 2-3 months people in your band will be graduating? Are they moving on to another school after or a job in another city? If so, that should be pretty telling that what you are in is a studio project/school thesis.
I wouldn't say "quit", but maybe scale back your participation and meanwhile look to join an already established band looking for a bassist. And yeah, you can be in more than one band at a time.
I'm not sure you're in a band in the sense most here would define it, but you are part of a studio recording project of original tunes. What becomes of these tunes - well, that's anyone's guess. Could just end up in the members' private cd collections or to show their friends.
Its a school project first and foremost - and if this is their career path, its a resume to their next job. I wouldn't see it much past that.
In this situation, they should be upfront and honestly pay the musicians they are working with for the tracks they are laying down.
I don't understand practicing 2-3x/wk for 6 months. Get a basic recording of the songs and go practice at home to each get your parts down. Meet up a few times per month to go over everything.
Are you recording your demo/album "live" - as the full band playing together? Or are you going to lay down the tracks piece by piece? (Ie record the drum parts one week, the bass parts the second week, etc)
Also you mentioned "seniors" - so in 2-3 months people in your band will be graduating? Are they moving on to another school after or a job in another city? If so, that should be pretty telling that what you are in is a studio project/school thesis.
I wouldn't say "quit", but maybe scale back your participation and meanwhile look to join an already established band looking for a bassist. And yeah, you can be in more than one band at a time.
Additional thoughts:
Theres guys here who are seasoned professionals. They can tell you all about the music industry and touring, etc. From my understanding:
- Getting "signed" doesn't mean much and could end up with a label paying for your studio time and tour expenses, and expecting all that back plus their fee from your gig pay and cd sales. In many cases you can bust your butt for them for a year, do an exhausting tour of various dives, and end up owing the label money!
- Money? Man don't do music for money - its a tough way to make a buck.
- Without becoming the next biggest hit band, you have a few career choices as a band: become a local regional favorite and get gigs at major events where the pay is big; or become a corporate band where you play weddings or corporate type events where again the pay is huge.
- The cost to make a cd, even with free studio time, is probably in the $7/cd range. Maybe more. Thats for say 500-1,000 copies. You want to get them professionally mastered, and printed, the design art done for the covers, and the whole thing put together as a ready-to-sell package. People pay $10/album on itunes. People will pay $10/cd for a local band at best. Maybe $5. Its not a money maker unless you are selling hundreds of thousands. Essentially the cd is a great way of spreading your name and music around. So people come to your shows.
But again - there's tons of great people on this forum with real industry experience. Figure out your end goal and then you can get advice on the steps to get there. In most cases its not happening in 6 months. It might take more than 6 years.
Theres guys here who are seasoned professionals. They can tell you all about the music industry and touring, etc. From my understanding:
- Getting "signed" doesn't mean much and could end up with a label paying for your studio time and tour expenses, and expecting all that back plus their fee from your gig pay and cd sales. In many cases you can bust your butt for them for a year, do an exhausting tour of various dives, and end up owing the label money!
- Money? Man don't do music for money - its a tough way to make a buck.
- Without becoming the next biggest hit band, you have a few career choices as a band: become a local regional favorite and get gigs at major events where the pay is big; or become a corporate band where you play weddings or corporate type events where again the pay is huge.
- The cost to make a cd, even with free studio time, is probably in the $7/cd range. Maybe more. Thats for say 500-1,000 copies. You want to get them professionally mastered, and printed, the design art done for the covers, and the whole thing put together as a ready-to-sell package. People pay $10/album on itunes. People will pay $10/cd for a local band at best. Maybe $5. Its not a money maker unless you are selling hundreds of thousands. Essentially the cd is a great way of spreading your name and music around. So people come to your shows.
But again - there's tons of great people on this forum with real industry experience. Figure out your end goal and then you can get advice on the steps to get there. In most cases its not happening in 6 months. It might take more than 6 years.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
If it makes you feel better, they were all common knowledge jam tunes and standards and simpler stuff
Yeah, well, I'm still a hack. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Sounds like you're in the trap of a lot of new startups -- the length of time you should be rehearsing depends on the skill of the band, in my view. But a bunch of competent players should be able to get out of rehearsal within less than three months. One group, I had out earning money in two rehearsals.
Here's how you do it. Get three good tunes up on Youtube/Reverbnation/web page/facebook -- take your pick. Make up some business cards or flyers on the band, and then start booking gigs off the website. You might have to show a long performance history to overcome the doubt everyone has in new band startups. I simply list "all the places our musicians have played" which is a list of all the places musicians have performed, but not necessarily as the current group. Book the gigs a couple months out, claiming the band is overbooked until then (and they are -- they are overbooked rehearsing). With money on the table, or a performance on the calendar, people will learn faster, equipment will get purchased, etcetera. I've used this formula a lot.
If no one goes out and books gigs after these three songs go up on the web, then it means you're in a group of musicians without an impressario (the business motor of the band). Get out of that situation fast unless you truly want to rehearse, record, and make a memory of the music. If they won't book gigs then, they won't do it much later either. Nor will any booking agents or other cats that might listen to your music.
Average musicians with a good impressario will go further than great musicians whose music doesn't leave the recording unit.
Here's how you do it. Get three good tunes up on Youtube/Reverbnation/web page/facebook -- take your pick. Make up some business cards or flyers on the band, and then start booking gigs off the website. You might have to show a long performance history to overcome the doubt everyone has in new band startups. I simply list "all the places our musicians have played" which is a list of all the places musicians have performed, but not necessarily as the current group. Book the gigs a couple months out, claiming the band is overbooked until then (and they are -- they are overbooked rehearsing). With money on the table, or a performance on the calendar, people will learn faster, equipment will get purchased, etcetera. I've used this formula a lot.
If no one goes out and books gigs after these three songs go up on the web, then it means you're in a group of musicians without an impressario (the business motor of the band). Get out of that situation fast unless you truly want to rehearse, record, and make a memory of the music. If they won't book gigs then, they won't do it much later either. Nor will any booking agents or other cats that might listen to your music.
Average musicians with a good impressario will go further than great musicians whose music doesn't leave the recording unit.
