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How loud is 25 tube watts?

#26
I've learned that even the suggestion that 25 tube watts is sufficient for gigging will get you laughed at on here.

By the way, if you're not into having volume wars onstage and have a mic or DI for bigger shows, it's sufficient.
 
#27
A few years ago I nearly got an Ampeg V4BH but I waited too long and they discontinued it. It was 100w all tube, and weighed in the 40's. I was (and still am) kind of drawn to the lower wattage heads just because I like how you can really push them and hit that sweet spot. I've had some bad experiences with the real deal SVTs and big fridge cabs.
 
#28
The Ampeg V4B is really loud. I've played large festivals with one at about 4 volume-wise through a 410 and was more than loud enough. You're going to mic/DI it anyways, I'm assuming. They are heavy, though. The old ones are, at least.
 
#29
Crockettnj said:
How fast is a 200 hp car using a gas-ethanol mix?
Click to expand...

Depends. Let's assume all values are approximate average for a car with "200 hp" So that you, the question asker, has a basic idea of what to expect from your specific application of this question, rather than me making a snide remark! :D

So, Lets assume the 200 hp car has a 2.5 litre engine, that is 2500 cc's.

This would, for the majority of cars with approx 200 hp these days be a 4 cylinder or a in line 6

Lets assume 4, as many cars use these.
lets assume a redline of approx. 7200 rpm, which is decent for a 4 cylinder engine. Assuming about 180-190 (lets say 185) lb-ft of torque, since the majority of engines these days have approx 80% the torque per ft-lb numerically as they do HP.

This would put the power band between 5 and 7K rpm, so asume the "Peak" power is 200 hp at 6200 rpm and about 185 lb-ft torque at 4200 rpm.


So, assuming the car weighs the an approx. 3200 lbs (about average for a sedan with 200 hp) and has a drag coeeficient of about 3.5 (a good average for sedans also), you could assume the car will run about a 8.2-8.4 second 0-60 mph time and a 14.5-15 second 1/4 mile. (differences vary on driver skill, manual vs auto gearboxes, etc etc.)

but this should be a good starting point for you to further your research, i hope i've helped!

I am not well versed in tube amps, if you could use your immense knowledge of the subject to please enlighten me with an approximate answer of equal knowledge, it would be greatly appreciated by me and the Original Poster. thank you!

Edit: i forgot to include your gas-ethanol mix question, Gas-ethanol is approximately 8-12 "octane" higher than standard petroleum based gasoline, therefore you can assume (which tweaked valve timing, etc.) approx a 5% increase in power, and a 2-3% increase in speed/times depending on application vs regular gasoline! :D
 
#30
A Traynor Bassmate, single 15 combo was my first amp. I found that I was easily buried by the average drummer on your average Ludwig drum kit of the day, and coupled with any budding Jimi Hendrix/Paige wannabe with their Silvertone guitar, slamming into some battered Fender Champ or Deluxe Reverb, only added to my lack of headroom and volume miseries. By itself, it could sound pretty passable for lower volume bass playing, but it was the proverbial ' Hell on Wheels ' if you decided to crank it up and play guitar with it instead. I later ended up getting a SUNN Model T head with a matching 2x15 cab, and the Traynor ended being my guitar amp for awhile until I sold it.
 
#31
oggdawg said:
I've learned that even the suggestion that 25 tube watts is sufficient for gigging will get you laughed at on here.

By the way, if you're not into having volume wars onstage and have a mic or DI for bigger shows, it's sufficient.
Click to expand...

If you are going DI with 25 watts or even 50 watts, be sure to have plenty of great speakers, a good sound engineer, an "adequate" FOH, excellent stage monitoring for all players, and no dependence on EQ from your rig. In ears would work best, IME.

If you are doing it with a mic alone, good luck! :rollno: N.B., :rollno: is not laughing at 25 or 50 watts. I have never found having a rig adequate to function as a stage monitor with a loud band in a big venue to be less than 500 watts into 4 ohms with a good 410 or even 610. Please remember that a 500 watt rig is theoretically only capable of double the loudness of a 50 watt rig.

My conclusion is that we all have different needs, and that the logarithmic scale is not intuitive. A 500 watt rig is theoretically not much more than twice a 25 watt rig, given the right cabs, but twice is a lot, IMHO. There are so many variable in a signal chain, it is hard to generalize beyond that, IME. :ninja:
 
#32
PZapdos said:
Depends. Let's assume all values are approximate average for a car with "200 hp" So that you, the question asker, has a basic idea of what to expect from your specific application of this question, rather than me making a snide remark! :D

So, Lets assume the 200 hp car has a 2.5 litre engine, that is 2500 cc's....
Click to expand...

An Audi A3 with a turbo-charged/FI 2.0 liter engine has a computer imposed top speed of 147 mph. :hyper:
 
#33
I refuse to go into tube vs. solid state comparative loudness.

To understand the difference in the real world, Watts do not work, Decibels do. Two factors together should help give a reasonable idea of relative loudness of some comparitive rigs; amplifier power output expressed in DB and speaker efficency in DB.

Caveat: manufacturer specs on speaker efficency are usually "massaged by marketing."

For argument's sake, let's use the numbers published by Bill Fitzmaurice for speaker efficency of two common devices, a 112 and a 410. The 112 is 97 DB, and the 410 is 102 DB.

That gets added to the power output of the amplifier (in DB) and there you are.

Here's a quick amp Watts to DB:
1W = 0 Db
25W = 14 DB
50W = 17 DB
100W = 20 DB
300W = 24.8 DB
500W = 27 DB
1000W = 30 DB

So, put 25 Watts into a 112 and you get 14 + 97 = 111 DB
Put 500 into a 410 and you get 27 + 102 = 129 DB

Have fun.
 
#34
It's not as simple as SPL measurements. You have to take into account what frequency those measurements are taken at.

Yes, a 25W amp could produce a 129db tone if it were say, 2000hz. But would it be able to produced a 40hz tone that loud, I don't think it could.
 
#38
PZapdos said:
Depends. Let's assume all values are approximate average...
Click to expand...

Nice effort, but I think the point was more that there are a ton of variables and it's not really a valid question because of the number of assumptions you have to make, and not necessarily a question looking for an analytical answer.

Whether or not a 25 watt tube amp will work for you in a gigging situation will depend on your band, your volume, your desired tone, your cab, etc, etc, etc. I play a 100 watt tube amp through an 8x10, it's loud enough for me in any situation. It can be a bit much for some situations, but I also have a 4x10 and a volume knob for situations where I need less volume.
 
#40
Old traynors are the best. The Bassmate, so I've been told, is a tone monster, sweet sounding, and these days, used almost exclusively by guitards. I have a Guitarmate, 20 watt EL84 amp, and I lend it to any guitarist that will take it. My all time favorite guitar tone comes out of that thing. But for bass.........

What you want is an old BassMaster, preferably the Mark II, or the YBA-1A. Huge trannies, about 80-90 watts. Will drive 4 or 8 ohms. With 2 15's hooked up, it will get mighty loud, and the tone, it's heavenly.

where ever you may end up amp-wise, don't forget you can get a louder result with a nice clean boost in front of your amp. An EBS multicomp is really good at this. Not so much the compression but the level out adjust, it's a big boost in perceived loudness when goosed.
 

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