How much are bass guitars truly worth?

[Antisyzygy]

Time is money, and the materials and tools are not cheap. Even at $3000, a luthier made bass guitar is not bad once you think of all of the aspects.

How much it's truly worth is up to you. If you don't think a persons skills and time are worth that much money, that is between you and yourself.

Just because bass X at $1000 looks like bass Y at $3000, doesn't mean there is anything the same about them, besides the shape.

It doesn't mean they're that different either.

In manufacturing people can take advantage of economies of scale to simultaneously improve quality while reducing cost.

 

[Antisyzygy]

Something else to consider:

In first world nations, a massive amount of money goes into complying with government regulations and taxes. Everything from environnental, OSHA, ACA, ADA, and the list goes on. This stuff is so expensive that larger companies have entire departments devoted to handling all this stuff.

In second and third world countries, it's like the US in the 19th century. You throw up a building, hire a bunch of people, and start building stuff. Overhead is much less - and you pass the savings on to the customer.

This is one of the reasons I actually AVOID made in America.

That's a double-edged sword though. Too much regulation can make everything cost more, but not always. Sometimes businesses adapt and make cheaper products in spite of regulation. Too little regulation and it means we don't care if we poison your drinking water or if a building collapses and kills a bunch of workers.

India has problems with buildings collapsing, pollution, poverty, etc. that is actually harming real people because they don't have as many rules protecting people.

I'd rather pay a bit more for a bass and have a reasonable expectation the workers are getting treated right.

 

[Robroy]

People go crazy and pay double the price for a Lexus or BMW, mainly to get the "status" they think comes with it.

Meanwhile, smart people drive a car that is functional and costs WAY less.

I have to differ on that one.

If you replace "smart" with, "less affluent", I agree. Don't get me wrong. If two people make the same money and are "middle class", the smart one IS the one that avoids the BMW in most cases. However, I know quite a few "filthy rich" people. To help the rest of us get a feel what it's like to be them, I put it this way:

Imagine you make $100,000 a year (that's middle class in many areas of the US now).
Imagine a "rich guy" makes $1,000,000 a year.

Here is how the two people view prices differently. This is an over-simplification, but you get my drift. This is a REAL effect.

"real price" comparison (how the person sees the price):
New BMW:
You: $75,000
Rich guy: $7,500

New KIA Rio:
You $18,000
Rich guy: $1,800

New Home:
You: $400,000
Rich Guy: $40,000

Ruth Chris dinner for two:
You: $200
Rich guy: $20

So, can you see how the Rich Guy would never even consider the Kia. The BMW is a reasonable choice. He still has plenty left over for the house, the meals, the trips, etc.

 

[Robroy]

I have an amazing wife who recently agreed to let me get a Brubaker. We were both blown away at the quality and beauty of the bass that I got. It's not just a bass guitar, it's a true work of art that's part of the decor of our home. Because it's out on display rather than cased under the bed (like my other basses) I pick it up and play everyday. So, everyday we're both enjoying the art aspect of it, and I have the opportunity to play a bass that I've dreamed of owning on an off over the last 15+ years. When I play this bass... it talks back to me and as a result my technique is improving. I would say it's worth what I paid for it.

You nail one of the cases where this stuff really matters. Put simply, it is more than just a bass.

 

[DigitalMan]

This is what Henry Ford did to put the entire nation in cars.

He built them overseas using low cost parts?

Henry Ford invented the modern assembly line as a means of lowering cost but not at the expense of building good cars. Also, a car is several orders of magnitude more complex than a bass. In a car the principle craftsmanship is in the design. In a bass the principle craftsmanship is in the build.

 

[gorneyg]

Too much to read. Thought this was about basses. Sorry if I disagree with the comparison between cars and building basses.
It comes down to getting what you want for what you can afford (or want) to pay...not always the same.
Is a $60K car 3x better than a $20K auto? Subjective.
Same with basses. Is a $3000 bass 10 times better than that $300 bass? Maybe...maybe not. Subjective.
I have a few custom basses and I've played many basses that were not 'custom'. I don't know if the custom bass is 10 times better but, in every instance, my custom basses (MINE...that's all I have to compare) are significantly better than what I'VE played off the rack. 10 times better? Not sure how to measure that but I can afford the basses I have so that's what I play.
And I admit...you also pay for a "name" or brand.

 

[Robroy]

That's a double-edged sword though. Too much regulation can make everything cost more, but not always. Sometimes businesses adapt and make cheaper products in spite of regulation. Too little regulation and it means we don't care if we poison your drinking water or if building collapse and kill a bunch of workers.

India has problems with buildings collapsing, pollution, poverty, etc. that is actually harming real people because they don't have as many rules protecting people.

I'd rather pay a bit more for a bass and have a reasonable expectation the workers are getting treated right.

I'm with you, but I hate that the government forces it. But if I say anything more, I violate site rules. But you get why I feel the way I do. I believe in voluntary actions and let the chips fall where they may. I know of companies that voluntarily treat their employees what I consider right. But I'm not God. That is a very good thing

 

[Sixgunn]

Well in terms of raw materials, a human being is worth under $10.00 but some, like kanye west are worth WAY more!!

 

[Robroy]

He built them overseas using low cost parts?

He applied the concept of the assembly line to autos, enabling him to significantly increase efficiency and also use relatively unskilled labor that did just a few tasks. Before Ford, cars were hand built by "Craftsmen". That's great if your only buyers are the super rich. It still works out well for Rolls Royce, but even they have found ways to streamline their production to stay competitive.

 

[DigitalMan]

He applied the concept of the assembly line to autos, enabling him to significantly increase efficiency and also use relatively unskilled labor that did just a few tasks. Before Ford, cars were hand built by "Craftsmen". That's great if your only buyers are the super rich. It still works out well for Rolls Royce, but even they have found ways to streamline their production to stay competitive.

I extended my comments while you were writing this reply. Ironically I did not see your response until afterward, but it seems we agree that the notion of craftsmanship pertains.

 

[Antisyzygy]

I'm with you, but I hate that the government forces it. But if I say anything more, I violate site rules. But you get why I feel the way I do. I believe in voluntary actions and let the chips fall where they may. I know of companies that voluntarily treat their employees what I consider right. But I'm not God. That is a very good thing

Yeah, no reason to risk getting political.

I was trying to tie it to basses. I'd prefer to buy a bass knowing the worker wasn't forced to take some job that is killing them or others around them. That's all. Though it's hard to imagine that happening at a guitar plant, it's happened before at places that sew our clothes so I guess anything is possible.

 

[Robroy]

In a car the principle craftsmanship is in the design. In a bass the principle craftsmanship is in the build.

I strongly disagree. It was true before Ford, but the whole industry learned that "craftsmanship" (Quality, really) can be built right into the design, allowing you to use such relatively low skilled "one task" workers that the workers are robots. This can be (and is being) done in all manufactured goods, including musical instruments.

There are many aspects of modern cars that are designed the way they are to serve one purpose: Enable a machine to put it together.

 

[Robroy]

Yeah, no reason to risk getting political.

I was trying to tie it to basses. I'd prefer to buy a bass knowing the worker wasn't forced to take some job that is killing them or others around them. That's all. Though it's hard to imagine that happening at a guitar plant, it's happened before at places that sew our clothes so I guess anything is possible.

One of the biggest challenges with things like basses and guitars is that, for an assembly line to be really efficient, you need to produce a LOT of whatever you are making. That's great with stuff like guns* and cars, but for basses and guitars in a market flooded with manufacturers, the volume is too low to really go all out for automation.

*One thing given credit in the colonists winning the American revolutionary war was the design of guns that could be assembled in an assembly line and all had interchangeable parts. Before that, every single gun was hand made and no two were exactly the same. We really have come a long way.

 

[troy mcclure]

As others say a bass is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.... Buyer Beware... you might be the only butt for that toilet seat. I always wanted an Alembic.... I got to play a used one in 82 at Sam Ash and it was a lower end model and played so well. Flash forward 20 years and I have some cash and start playing bass again. I pull up the Alembic website and a new Stanley Clarke Standard is in the ball park of $8000. I am no fool and I found one on Ebay for $1800... 75% depreciation for a 6 year old bass. It was near perfect.
I am sure bass builders earn every penny they ask but I play a $400 used MIM or a $200 Used MIJ nearly every gig. The Alembic hung on the wall and I used it for some recordings.

Hand making anything costs real money. There are certainly incremental differences in the end product but really the major difference is aesthetics and the pleasure of ownership.

Jamerson played some of the greatest basslines in the world with a stock P bass. I sounded like me on an $8000 Alembic .

 

[RickyWoo]

I strongly disagree. It was true before Ford, but the whole industry learned that "craftsmanship" (Quality, really) can be built right into the design, allowing you to use such relatively low skilled "one task" workers that the workers are robots. This can be (and is being) done in all manufactured goods, including musical instruments.

There are many aspects of modern cars that are designed the way they are to serve one purpose: Enable a machine to put it together.

Are you trying to say that Ford Motor Company quality and idealism of today is on par with Henry Ford quality and idealism of yore? If so, L.O.L.

 

[Susqmike]

It's all individual. Saying a 400.00 bass is the smart option because it has everything a ridiculously expensive bass has definitely misses the mark that the bass connoisseur holds important (the feel of an expertly crafted instrument). The guys playing 7k basses are not down on you because you won't honor your art with a "good" instrument. That would be absurd....as is this end of the argument.

 

[Robroy]

Are you trying to say that Ford Motor Company quality of today is on par with Henry Ford quality of yore? If so, L.O.L.

No. That is not what I'm trying to say.

BTW, If you were to look at the specs of the original Model T and compare it to the vehicles available today, the one it is most similar to in speed, seating, etc. would be a golf cart.

In a world of blind men, the one eyed man is king. In a world of horse drawn carriages, the guy with a golf cart is king.

 

[socialleper]

n first world nations, a massive amount of money goes into complying with government regulations and taxes. Everything from environnental, OSHA, ACA, ADA, and the list goes on.

False narratives. These things are propaganda foisted by international businesses that would like to see the American worker be treated as pathetically as Third World countries. They've already done an excellent job of suppressing wages and making education too expensive for many people without going into massive debt. If you eliminate those pesky "regulations" like safe work environments, a 40 hour work week (which has already been damaged by the elimination of overtime for white collar salary workers), and child labor laws we do end up back at the 19th century, which was a terrible time to be a have-not. Its a step back towards industrial serfdom.
No thank you.

 

[Doner Designs]

Economically speaking you should take the net present value of future cash flows (gig money) that will be generated by the new bass. For players who already have a pretty good bass, the answer is zero and would actually be negative to the extent you will probably eventually sell it for less than you paid.

So, roughly half the amount you pay is like spending money on a vacation or any other non-durable goods that give you enjoyment. The other half you will get back when you sell.

That was tongue-in-cheek, but is basically the truth.

 

[Robroy]

False narratives. These things are propaganda foisted by international businesses that would like to see the American worker be treated as pathetically as Third World countries. They've already done an excellent job of suppressing wages and making education too expensive for many people without going into massive debt. If you eliminate those pesky "regulations" like safe work environments, a 40 hour work week (which has already been damaged by the elimination of overtime for white collar salary workers), and child labor laws we do end up back at the 19th century, which was a terrible time to be a have-not. Its a step back towards industrial serfdom.
No thank you.

I don't want to get into the political ramifications of whether governements should force stuff on businesses. I'm just talking about my personal experience as a Business Analyst with large and small businesses in the US. If people knew how much of the cost of products they purchase is due to the cost of doing business in the country where the manufacturer does business, they'd realize that, even if wages were the same across all countries, the cost of items would still vary greatly due to these "background noise" costs.