i think you're correct: "the amount of theory you need to know -at a minimum - is what you need to get the job done."
i'm sure of this: you can talk bass without any "theory" whatsoever --- can you say "P-bass?"
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How much music theory do you really need to know?
- Thread starter IamGroot
- Start date
i'm sure of this: you can talk bass without any "theory" whatsoever --- can you say "P-bass?"
I'm grateful for the positive note in that response! I tend to agree, because I play covers and they're available for practice. After you've played for some time, your ear tells you if you're on target or not.
Cool!
See this for further understanding of what I was trying to say. I think it is still in line with your views...
How much music theory do you really need to know?
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For me:
Major Scale
Minor Scale
knowing what a I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII mean.
Knowing what every note on the fretboard is. That's it.
Major Scale
Minor Scale
knowing what a I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII mean.
Knowing what every note on the fretboard is. That's it.
This was me for a long time. I've started watching some of the educational and analytical music channels on youtube in the last few years though and have picked up quite a bite of music theory from that. A lot of it just giving me names and descriptions for things I kind of knew from songs though.
I'm the oddball. I've been playing jazz for 45 years, starting in middle school jazz band. I'm a fluent sight reader, and play in a large jazz ensemble that's chart-based, plus I do a fair amount of combo work. I know nearly all of the standards that are likely to be called at gigs in my area. In combo groups, I do extensive soloing, typically on every tune. I can pick up new tunes by ear, or from head charts, whatever it takes: Jazz, rock, folk music, etc.
I know very little theory, just because I never took the time to learn it. Of course I know what the chord symbols mean, and I can play scales in the modes, but can't remember the names of the modes. So far as what mode to play over what chord, and that kind of stuff, forget it.
Basically, I compensate for my lack of theory. But it's a handicap in a number of ways. If you hit me with really difficult modern changes, I'm lost, though I can often play a brief solo by improvising directly from the melody. I can't compose to save my life, and I can play bass parts but can't tell you what all of the decorations are on the changes (7ths, 11ths, 37ths, etc).
There's an old saying that a bassist doesn't need fast fingers, just fast ears. If your ears are fast enough, and you've spent a lifetime of playing and listening, and have been given lots of opportunities to learn on the bandstand, then you don't need to learn theory. The players I know who can play jazz intuitively without having studied theory formally, learned it on the bandstand by playing a gig with good players every night for years.
If you don't want to spend 45 years, you can get there quicker by learning theory.
I know very little theory, just because I never took the time to learn it. Of course I know what the chord symbols mean, and I can play scales in the modes, but can't remember the names of the modes. So far as what mode to play over what chord, and that kind of stuff, forget it.
Basically, I compensate for my lack of theory. But it's a handicap in a number of ways. If you hit me with really difficult modern changes, I'm lost, though I can often play a brief solo by improvising directly from the melody. I can't compose to save my life, and I can play bass parts but can't tell you what all of the decorations are on the changes (7ths, 11ths, 37ths, etc).
There's an old saying that a bassist doesn't need fast fingers, just fast ears. If your ears are fast enough, and you've spent a lifetime of playing and listening, and have been given lots of opportunities to learn on the bandstand, then you don't need to learn theory. The players I know who can play jazz intuitively without having studied theory formally, learned it on the bandstand by playing a gig with good players every night for years.
If you don't want to spend 45 years, you can get there quicker by learning theory.
It reads to me that you are equating music theory to knowing chords. That is but a very small piece of it.
If you are in a cover band, why do you nees to know theory? The song is already written. Learn it. Play it. Genre does not matter. If you are creating your own stuff, i dont think it really matters all that much. Most professional musicians dont know squat about theory. The best rock/country/metal songs were written by folks that had zero theory.
Since this is a thread about music theory…F## not G ;-)
Sorry I couldn’t resist…
I get what you're saying, but I don't think it has anything to do with her.That's interesting because if she was aiming for a specific timbre, or the way moving between notes makes the phrasing she wanted, then she'd be right despite being ignorant of many things. The best measure of this situation is how well she can explain her choices, or how well she can identify why yours won't do something she wants done.
An example is letting rip with the sea shanty 'Spanish Ladies' with a JJ Burnel-like tone, on the far ends of the strings. (Very satisfying, really it is). It's harder than playing it further up, and on fewer and lower strings, but that rant and roar can't be had the easy way.
The more you know, the more you know. Ignorance isn't a virtue or something to be cherished.
Certain realms of music are inaccessible to the illiterate ones.
I graduated from Fairmont State College school of music back in 1974. However, I've worked in a lot of rock/country bands that didn't know anything about music theory. Knowing music theory has made me a more versatile player and makes learning songs easier.
I stand by what I said 100%. Music theory isn’t a set of rules to tell you what the right notes to play will be, it’s a tool to tell you what that cool thing you just heard actually is made of.
There are definitely different ways to get to where you want to go. It's unfortunate when playing with others that have no clue how to read anything or know what anything is. I-IV-V?? Frustrating.
Learn some basics. Like play more than just the big letter note. And don't cross out the pedal tones. A/C#. Why did you white out the C#??? Don't you know that is your note to play??
Learn some basics. Like play more than just the big letter note. And don't cross out the pedal tones. A/C#. Why did you white out the C#??? Don't you know that is your note to play??
That's all great stuff But what's REALLY IMPORTANT --CRUCIAL-- is knowing the difference between "Greater" and "Lesser" Semi-tones. 
! (Great for winning Bar bets!)
! (Great for winning Bar bets!)
Whats really wierd is that I always play the G and not thr F## and nobody notices.
- Dec 21, 2007
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What you say (needed to get the job done) is correct.i think you're correct: "the amount of theory you need to know -at a minimum - is what you need to get the job done."
i'm sure of this: you can talk bass without any "theory" whatsoever --- can you say "P-bass?"
OTOH, the question is rather like "how much money do you need to have?" The answer may be low, but often "a little more wouldn't hurt".
Enough to know what you are hearing; at least for yourself, if not to be able to tell others what you want.
At a minimum to be able to hear the root of a chord, know the quality of the chord [Maj, min, Dom,Aug, dim].
Knowing intervals so as to hear root movement in chord progressions. Also to figure out riffs and signature licks.
Learning the more common chord progressions.
It's good to know/learn/hear inversions - root, first, second - so you can spice up your lines a little instead of always nailing down roots. They're pretty easy to learn and you'd recognize the sound - esp if you play reggae.
Beyond that I found it useful to know how to build chords off of chord charts. Here again where knowing inversions and chord tones is helpful for quickly thinking smooth basslines through chord progressions, instead of always jumping from root to root.
it's good to learn and hear the signature sound of the different modes and get them into your fingers for runs (kind of in auto mode if you are singing when you are playing) - this also helps for hearing your way through weird alternate chords and subs if you are doing jazzy/fusion stuff.
Also fun to think about counterpoint, so you can build fun counter basslines over guitar runs and licks, unless you are totally happy following guitar lines.
This is the stuff that helped me most onstage thinking up ideas, and jamming on the fly, quickly learning songs, and hearing in my head so I could write songs on bass and tell others what I wanted to hear or correct them if something was off = "that's a minor, not Major","I'm playing the third there, that's not the root","It's a second inversion, so I'm pedaling the fifth".
☮ 
At a minimum to be able to hear the root of a chord, know the quality of the chord [Maj, min, Dom,Aug, dim].
Knowing intervals so as to hear root movement in chord progressions. Also to figure out riffs and signature licks.
Learning the more common chord progressions.
It's good to know/learn/hear inversions - root, first, second - so you can spice up your lines a little instead of always nailing down roots. They're pretty easy to learn and you'd recognize the sound - esp if you play reggae.
Beyond that I found it useful to know how to build chords off of chord charts. Here again where knowing inversions and chord tones is helpful for quickly thinking smooth basslines through chord progressions, instead of always jumping from root to root.
it's good to learn and hear the signature sound of the different modes and get them into your fingers for runs (kind of in auto mode if you are singing when you are playing) - this also helps for hearing your way through weird alternate chords and subs if you are doing jazzy/fusion stuff.
Also fun to think about counterpoint, so you can build fun counter basslines over guitar runs and licks, unless you are totally happy following guitar lines.
This is the stuff that helped me most onstage thinking up ideas, and jamming on the fly, quickly learning songs, and hearing in my head so I could write songs on bass and tell others what I wanted to hear or correct them if something was off = "that's a minor, not Major","I'm playing the third there, that's not the root","It's a second inversion, so I'm pedaling the fifth".
☮
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