How often do you have PA support?

[Hippos Melas]

Wow, wide variety of replies here. From what I can gather, just about any place I could be playing at will have some sort of PA support? And it looks like those of you who don't have PA support still seem to manage with a single 15" or 2 x 12" cabs. Maybe I don't need to throw $1800 into a rig. I'd just hate to have a gig and not have enough power or anything to be able to play it.

Keep the replies coming!

 

[rpsands]

Make sure you're loud enough to play over an acoustic drumset with no PA support. That's the key point of volume I've played my GK 112 Backline combo with a drummer and it was loud enough. Depends on the drummer, the kit, and the room.

 

[MikeyThrottler]

I have PA support about 75% of the time.

I play anywhere from hole-in-the-wall bars to medium-sized clubs. Usually the mains in the tiny places can only handle vocals and maybe kick drum. Larger venues always have a house PA.

I pack a 300W tube amp running through either a Mesa 4X12 or an Ampeg 6X10.

If the club has a house PA, the house sound guy runs it, and it comes out of your cut (no exceptions).

My gig last weekend was a good example of why I pack a large rig. It was a large room with only vocals through the mains. I had to turn my SVT all the way up to 3.5

 

[SteveC]

-How often do you have PA support?
-Where do you typically play (small club, medium club, bar, outdoors, etc.)
-How many watts do you typically pack?
-What size/how many cabinets do you typically bring?

1. Always for outdoor, always for funk/rock/horn band gigs and church.
2. Never for jazz quartet gigs - don't usually need it as it's mostly small venues and background music.
3/4. I have a 175 watt, 1z10 combo. All I need for jazz, and monitoring with PA.

 

[Bassdirty]

Almost always.
(Rock/Pop coverband)
If its a really small place, we'll do our own sound..(Good size setup too...with subs.)
But even then, I go thru the PA.

I use an SWR410 and GK or Peavey head...or if its really small place I've used my acoustic B200(115combo)..and still go thru PA.


I like the question though, as I'd love to downsize my rig.

 

[seanm]

Make sure you're loud enough to play over an acoustic drumset with no PA support. That's the key point of volume I've played my GK 112 Backline combo with a drummer and it was loud enough. Depends on the drummer, the kit, and the room.

+1 The reason I can always get away with a 2x12 is because it is loud enough to match the drummer. I do not play with any really heavy hitters, so I am fine.

With PA support everything changes. Now the rig is only my monitor. If I need more than a 2x12 to hear myself on stage, the band is too loud IMHO. In fact, a 1x12 should be good enough.

 

[aborgman]

So I was curious with all these threads about mini rigs of doom and people's go-to rigs being 1x15s or 1x12s how everyone's getting away with such a small rig. So, humor me:

-How often do you have PA support?

Depends on what you mean by "PA support".

How often can I run a little bass through PA? Pretty much every show.

How often could I carry the room with the PA? Almost never.

-Where do you typically play (small club, medium club, bar, outdoors, etc.)

Small to medium sized bars.

-How many watts do you typically pack?

First choice amp is an Ampeg B-18, so 50 watts. If that isn't enough, I use 1/2 of a Carvin DCM1000 - so about 350W.

-What size/how many cabinets do you typically bring?

A single fEarful 15/6.

 

[aborgman]

I'd like to make an addendum to the question. When you do have PA support, who is running the sound? you, band member, dedicated sound guy, house sound guy?

Me.

 

[aborgman]

this i don't get. the reason for micing the kick is to get those low frequencies the kick doesn't produce by itself. but in order to make it work, you have to have a pa that's as capable on the lows as it needs to be for bass.

Good ged no.

I don't want ANY frequencies that the kick doesn't produce. I want to reproduce the sound of the kick.

...and yeah, the PA needs to be capable of handling it. Thing is, it's perfectly easy to build a PA capable of reproducing either kick or bass, but not BOTH at the same time.

If you can do one or the other, it makes sense to choose kick - because I can turn up my bass amp. The drummer has a hard time turning up the kick.

 

[will33]

-How often do you have PA support?

In town almost always, out of town almost never (bring our own).


-Where do you typically play (small club, medium club, bar, outdoors, etc.)

All of the above.


-How many watts do you typically pack?

Medium size heads, 300-500 watts because.....


-What size/how many cabinets do you typically bring?

More speakers get you louder than more watts do. Bring enough to compete. Sometimes that mean competing with drums that are mic'ed through a "vocal only PA" in a pinch.

If you carry your own PA with a sub, you can bring a small rig and DI into it. If you're running your own sound, investing in bigger/better PA gear gets you a lot farther than investing in a bigger/better bass rig. Little "social" advise would be to avoid "community" band gear or "group funding" of said gear. Own it--band breaks up--take your stuff with you.

 

[zachoff]

-How often do you have PA support?
Almost all the time in one form or another. Vocals, bass drum, and snare are almost always going through FOH. Bass and guitar go through the FOH about half the time.

-Where do you typically play?
Smallish clubs (~50 to ~200 capacity)

-How many watts do you typically pack?
300

-What size/how many cabinets do you typically bring?
810

 

[IvanMike]

Well this is CT so most of my gigs are sans PA support for the bass.

The majority of venues have no PA of their own, most bands supply their own and often just for vocals (putting everything through a PA in a smaller venue is just overkill unless the musicians are very professional about keeping stage volume down).

As such, many of these gigs have the band running the PA - if you get lucky you have a gig in a band with someone who "gets it" and runs the PA for you.

The live music scene here in CT is pretty bad these days - the economy really has given the already struggling "scene" a beating.

For the bigger outdoor gigs I play the bass almost always goes through the PA. Of these (primarily new england and new york) bands might provide the PA 1/2 the time or so depending upon the event.

My rig is 650 watts in almost all cases. This does not mean I turn it up to 11.....

 

[the yeti]

almost always. i take a gk 1001 and a 4x10.

 

[LiamPodmore]

Rarely, my bands PA is only 250w per side so i'm stuck with what i have, which until i get a cab is 150w into a 1x12, which can barely cope without having to crank it to the max. When i finally get a cab (Or two) i'll be running 350w into 8 ohms or 500 into 4 ohms, that should be enough.

Liam

 

[delta7fred]

Little "social" advise would be to avoid "community" band gear or "group funding" of said gear. Own it--band breaks up--take your stuff with you.

+1

We bought a 'communal' PA between 4 of us, we kicked out the keys player and I bought his share, then the drummer left so again I bought his share so I now own 75% of it. I keep it, carry it to gigs and also maintain it and would buy out the last member if necessary. To be honest I could make more money hiring it out and being the sound guy than I do playing bass, but where's the fun in that.

 

[SurferJoe46]

The only PA we use is for the keyboard(s), the vocals and possibly my harmonica.

All the other gear is stand-alone.

I run 600 Watts with my bass, the guitarists each run over 800 Watts on either 412s or 812s, and the drummer is a double kick and we usually keep him in a cage.

We play a lot of 40 to 100 acre gigs in the good weather and a few community get-togethers with walk-on and open mics a couple of times a year.

When I play the wine and cheese rooms, I am still stand-alone but at considerably less power, while the guitarist will play somewhat muted dining jazz and some smooth oldies.

It depends on the crowd - but in the cheese/wine rooms, we don't want to have to stop to give CPR to a patron, so we tone it down.

No PA at all most times, like I say, but a vocalist and keyboard needs it

 

[will33]

+1

We bought a 'communal' PA between 4 of us, we kicked out the keys player and I bought his share, then the drummer left so again I bought his share so I now own 75% of it. I keep it, carry it to gigs and also maintain it and would buy out the last member if necessary. To be honest I could make more money hiring it out and being the sound guy than I do playing bass, but where's the fun in that.

+1

In our latest venture (which has gigs on the books for may and june but hasn't actually played one yet) I got the bass gear and the PA gear. Not a spectacular PA by any means but it's a heckuva a lot better than the rest of the band has..(which as it stands now is nothing). Couple of low SPL mains and a single decent sub + 3 or 4 monitors. This thing seems like it could do well but if not, I still got my stuff. As time and money allows this will gradually get replaced with DR200 tops and a pair of T39 subs, in which case means I can handle as big of an audience as we'll play for without sponsorship/tour contracts, etc. in which case it's out of my hands.

Anyway, PA's are much more expensive than good bass rigs but also can get you much more in return so it's either a big initial investment while waiting quite a while for the return or it's a piecemeal "put it together when you can" thing (like me) that'll keep you sounding good and be able to put on a good show for years to come. Also takes a lot more knowledge to put together and make sound good than just a bass rig. You actually have to pay attention to all the instruments and voices, which I like.

 

[ihateusernames]

always. i'm a live sound engineer - er, 'hey soundguy'. when i play, it's always DI to a board. and yes, you can have bass in your wedge when i mix >

 

[Hippos Melas]

So even with PA support some people are still carting around 810s? Why?

 

[Metal Matt]

So even with PA support some people are still carting around 810s? Why?

It all depends on what a band is trying to do with their live show. For my band it's play so loud that everyone in the room is dazed by the end of the set, which no soundguy is going to do for us, so I cart around 3 amps and 4 large cabs and use the PA for drums, for others it's play quiet so bar patrons can talk and so they (the band) can make money. For bands on larger stages still using 8x10's and full stacks for guitars maybe it's important to them to still have the volume at that level even if it only makes it to them and all the crowd hears is what's out of the PA. 8x10's have a sound of their own and move a lot of air. No single or double speaker cab is going to do what an 8x10 does. There's no right or wrong to this stuff other than what's right or wrong for the bands needs/preferences/goals etc...

That's my two cents on it anyways.