How 'real' is this '70 P-bass?

[bigtone23]

That neck is def mid 70s, no later than early '76. Pretty sure the '70 neck would have no skunk stripe and certainly the bigger TV logo.
I would get the pickup(s) rewound. May as well have those old grey bottoms working vs dead. A rewind is about the same price as a good new pickup, anyway.
Pots could stay if they still work properly, but they are 20 years newer than the bass and proper, solid shaft pots would be correct P Bass equipment. The knobs aren't original, either, but could stay just because they are old and have patina. Same thing as the jack, if it's a Switchcraft and works with the new wind/pickup and new or cleaned pots, keep it in the mix.
As for the screws, I wouldn't worry about the pickguard screws. Put the shiny ones close to the bass side of the pickup and the bass side of the bridge so your hand contacts them more and speeds up their rusting and decay.
Same with the pickup screw, just replace the stripped one, and put the new one right off the E string side of the coil for the same reason as mentioned above, getting touched more will speed up it's aging.

 

[BurningSkies]

Here are the issues with respect to authenticity:
-- minor issue is that 3 of the pickguard screws are shiny, the rest quite rusty. Would you just leave them that way? Not a dramatic problem because I can leave them as is, and when/if my son-in-law decides to sell it, any simple cosmetic issues can be dealt with then.
-- the other minor issue is that one of the 4 pickup mounting screws has a boogered up phillips. I don't want to put it back because it was very hard to get out. New set of 4? Replace only one? Get a spare and make it get rusty (relic it)?
-- the major issue is the pickup of course. Can't call it playable until it is replaced or repaired. One option--sent it to a pro to be rewound. Another option, get a Fender reproduction of the original. The all-things approach is to retire the old pickup for "the future" and put in any pickup I'd like for now. Fix the bad one some time before it goes on the market if that should ever happen.
-- the pots. On a 48 year old bass what are the chances the original pots still exist and work okay? Seems tiny to me. So maybe replaced pots are customary on a vintage bass and I could go with anything, Fender Pure Vintage, Bourns (benefit--1/4" shafts), CTS etc. Is there a better solution? Leaving them as is might work. Those pops I heard could have been the jack, the short in the pickup or a pot. Maybe I'll put all 3 parts--2 pots and the jack--into the same save-for-later bag as the bad pickup, put in all new for reliability, and let Joe worry about it if he decides to sell it. (He likes that it's valuable and he has kept it for at least 10 years so I think he'll not get restless soon to cash it in).

And here's the last possibility. Maybe I am overthinking this. I don't want to de-value this work of art, though. I replace the pickguard, pickup, pots, jack and screws. I carefully preserve all the old parts. (Maybe after getting the broken pickup rewound). We both enjoy playing this bass in its new state of being upgraded for playability.

Eager to hear what you'd do in my shoes. I'll have the bass indefinitely, but will return it this year and would like to give it back workable and not de-valued.

Real world reality check time:

This is not a 'collectors' bass. It just isn't. It's been molested in nearly every way possible.

It's had the original finish stripped, it's had different guards, different bridges, some screw holes I can't even figure out. The pickups appear to be halves of two different pickups put together (poorly), the pots seem to be mix-and match as well. There's no telling that the bridge is original to the bass. The pickguard screws are the least of this bass' issues.

As such I'd be much less concerned about end collectors' value and more concerned about making a bass that's playable and sounds good to you and whoever else has their hands on it. I'd certainly keep anything you remove off of it no matter what, but I suggest that with any bass. From there I'd personally get a nice set of pickups that sound good, a couple good quality pots that work properly and overall not change too much beyond addressing the fact that the frets look worn flat, and I'd want t make sure the neck is flat.

That bass has a lot of history, much of it is dubious...which is fine, but treat it like the player it is, since you'll not ever be able to erase that.

 

[JimmyM]

Real world reality check time:

This is not a 'collectors' bass. It just isn't. It's been molested in nearly every way possible.

It's had the original finish stripped, it's had different guards, different bridges, some screw holes I can't even figure out. The pickups appear to be halves of two different pickups put together (poorly), the pots seem to be mix-and match as well. There's no telling that the bridge is original to the bass. The pickguard screws are the least of this bass' issues.

As such I'd be much less concerned about end collectors' value and more concerned about making a bass that's playable and sounds good to you and whoever else has their hands on it. I'd certainly keep anything you remove off of it no matter what, but I suggest that with any bass. From there I'd personally get a nice set of pickups that sound good, a couple good quality pots that work properly and overall not change too much beyond addressing the fact that the frets look worn flat, and I'd want t make sure the neck is flat.

That bass has a lot of history, much of it is dubious...which is fine, but treat it like the player it is, since you'll not ever be able to erase that.

I agree, Bill. At this point, I'd advise making it his own, too. I did that to my 76 Precision starting in 1982. Back then we had no idea they would ever be collector's items. And now the only original parts are the body and the neckplate, and who cares? It's a beaut to play, even if it's a tad heavy for me.

 

[Rabidhamster]

I borrowed this Pbass from my son in law. The serial number is in the 280000 range, which makes it a 1970 model. I feel totally confident that the neck is original, but the body is pine, not ash. Is this possible?

Looking for comments from you guys who are experts at Fender history...TIA
View attachment 4162308

View attachment 4162310
Pine body shots above. The bass weights 8lbs max. Kinda makes me want a P-bass, since that's my preferred weight for a bass.

That is definitely not pine! Clearly alder.
Don’t replace the pots or anything that isn’t already broken. You can’t buy new potentiometers of that quality anymore.

 

[JayGunn]

Did you take a pic of the neck pocket when you had it removed from the body?

Here it is. It looked lumpy to me so I gave it a light scraping with a single edge razor blade, actually was remarkably flat, just looks uneven:

Looks like it always was blonde. Too bad some previous owner filed the body and pickguard to try to reach the truss rod screw!

 

[BurningSkies]

Here it is. It looked lumpy to me so I gave it a light scraping with a single edge razor blade, actually was remarkably flat, just looks uneven:
View attachment 4166471
Looks like it always was blonde. Too bad some previous owner filed the body and pickguard to try to reach the truss rod screw!

Fender didn't use alder bodies for 'natural' finishes. It's been stripped along the way.

 

[JayGunn]

It's been stripped along the way.

...and when you strip it you could find anything. This one has consistent color AND consistent width of the pieces, as if a woodworker had actually intended to show off the wood. But of course what probably really happened was that a nice 8/4 x 5" wide plank came off the bundle, got crosscut into 22" lengths, and all 3 pieces ended up in this lucky bass.

I saw it in my crystal ball, honest!

p.s. I had gotten in touch with an experienced pickup winder/restorer only to find out that he is now retired. And he suggested I rewind the pickup myself. Yes I could do that on the basis of having wound about 4-5 pickups (never broke a wire!), but I decided instead to put in a Fender '62 original pickup, save the old one for posterity, and eventually give it back to my son-in-law after some good playing time (not that I need a 4th bass). Joe agrees it is a wonderful 'player' more than it is a beaten up non-original 'collector,' and several of you wise talkbass gurus have already noted.

I got it working by putting in a Squire Vintage Modified pickup of my own and it plays amazingly well and sounds really good. The non-original CTS pots look old but are smooth and non-scratchy.

The frets are .105 wide. I checked the height and found they range from .041 down to about .026 high. The lowest ones hardly have any crown on them. Who cares, it sounds great!

 

[stefanb]

It's a '76 refinished/stripped body, probably blonde (my realistic dream bass is a post '75 blonde/maple) with some replacement parts along the way.

'76 because of no serial number on the headstock, it was still on the backplate then they moved it up for S7 serials.

 

[MynameisMe]

I think it is cool to have an old bass. All of mine are 20+ years old.
I would rather have a player than a relic.
That is a cool old bass!

 

[satjhmo]

p.s. I had gotten in touch with an experienced pickup winder/restorer only to find out that he is now retired. And he suggested I rewind the pickup myself. Yes I could do that on the basis of having wound about 4-5 pickups (never broke a wire!), but I decided instead to put in a Fender '62 original pickup, save the old one for posterity, and eventually give it back to my son-in-law after some good playing time (not that I need a 4th bass). Joe agrees it is a wonderful 'player' more than it is a beaten up non-original 'collector,' and several of you wise talkbass gurus have already noted.

Great idea and a nice project. Being great to play and sounding good are very often lower-order priorities to collectors, investors and completists, but you seem to have yours straight

 

[bigtone23]

Joe agrees it is a wonderful 'player' more than it is a beaten up non-original 'collector,' and several of you wise talkbass gurus have already noted.

I got it working by putting in a Squire Vintage Modified pickup of my own and it plays amazingly well and sounds really good. The non-original CTS pots look old but are smooth and non-scratchy.

The frets are .105 wide. I checked the height and found they range from .041 down to about .026 high. The lowest ones hardly have any crown on them. Who cares, it sounds great!

I have found that P pickups that are wound similarly sound pretty much all the same. Something about the split coil design kind of homogenizes the tone, in a good way. A 11K $25 Squier alnico pickup isn't that tonally different from a 11K $150 boutique, really. Certainly not 6X's better sounding.
The frets do look rather leveled. When it's time for a refret, some good ol' 6150s will have it in it's former glory.

I think it is cool to have an old bass. All of mine are 20+ years old.
I would rather have a player than a relic.
That is a cool old bass!

This is how I like my basses: player grade, already "devalued" so anything I do makes it personal and cleaner looking.
If mine, I would most certainly refin it Sherwood green, just so I could finally have a Sherwood Green Fender! Who cares what was correct for the era, it's mine to have fun with! My 72 J was professionally stripped and refinished natural, the story goes it was done at the Steinberger factory in the 80s. It's ash, so it was was natural (or most likely sunburst) before.

 

[WoodyJ]

Over the past 48 years and having had more than a dozen Fender basses, my all-time favorite is my '65 Precision "mongrel" - The only original parts are the ash body and the hardware. It has a nicely figured Jazz-profile Warmoth neck, a Lollar pickup, all new wiring and electronics. It looks and sounds killer even though is no longer "original" or worth a lot but it always puts a big smile on my face when I play it.

 

[JayGunn]

It's freeing not to have to worry about period correctness and be free just to play and enjoy it. Glad you guys are not on me for not making it as perfect as possible. So many things it needs can't really put it back anyway. One thing I AM tempted to splurge on is a pair of relic-ed knobs from eBay. I saw some for under $30 that really do look just like to old one, they match each other, they're the right shape and it would get rid of that new shiny chrome one, that really doesn't fit.

 

[BurningSkies]

It's freeing not to have to worry about period correctness and be free just to play and enjoy it. Glad you guys are not on me for not making it as perfect as possible. So many things it needs can't really put it back anyway. One thing I AM tempted to splurge on is a pair of relic-ed knobs from eBay. I saw some for under $30 that really do look just like to old one, they match each other, they're the right shape and it would get rid of that new shiny chrome one, that really doesn't fit.

You can relic them yourself if you want a fun little project. Lots of info online on how to do it. I've used PCB etchant solution and/or muriatic acid before...

 

[JayGunn]

Hmmm I have ferric chloride (which I guess is the most common etchant). Can you start with chrome plated knobs? or maybe need nickel plated? I'd like to know more about this.