How the hell are these bands playing live at home?

[s0c9]

Hey s0c9, that sounds like a pretty good session for only your 2nd time on there. Yes, getting the "mix" right, can be a challenge, but you do have control over the levels that you hear for each person in the session. Basically, you hover over their icon and a fader will appear, and you adjust the sound level to taste, same with each person you're playing with. It won't have any effect on what they hear, as it's your personal mix.

TIP: Before I go to a session, I setup a "Quick Solo Session" that lets me make sure my levels are good and everything is operating ok (making sure I'm listening to what's coming back from JamKazam, NOT my input into the computer). And once I've got everything sounding good, then I'll close that "Quick Solo Session" and head on over to the regular session area.

Understood.. the point I may not have elaborated well, is that if thatr individual has multiple instruments going (eg: guitar and vox, or keys and say drum machine), one only has a single fader to adjust that mix.
If you can't hear their vocals well because their guitar is drowning it out.. there's NO way to adjust the levels between the 2 - only their entire mix.
I'm not sure that (as I haven't tried) monitoring the master mix is an improvement, nor how one get others in the session to balance the mix levels of their multiple instruments!

 

[triode6L6a]

Understood.. the point I may not have elaborated well, is that if thatr individual has multiple instruments going (eg: guitar and vox, or keys and say drum machine), one only has a single fader to adjust that mix.
If you can't hear their vocals well because their guitar is drowning it out.. there's NO way to adjust the levels between the 2 - only their entire mix.
I'm not sure that (as I haven't tried) monitoring the master mix is an improvement, nor how one get others in the session to balance the mix levels of their multiple instruments!

Oh, I see...... yes, that can definitely be distracting, and I've found it's simply a matter of establishing a routine that involves spending a few moments at the start of a session discussing how the mix sounds, usually by playing a short song, then discussing and making adjustments.

Of course I do know that is easier said than done, as some folks just want to get in and go, ha, but don't forget, there is a "Chat" function on the right side where you can type stuff that everybody in the session will see, so you might try communicating that way.

Anyway, many times these things will get worked out over time, so be patient and for now simply enjoy it for what it is, an opportunity to at least play with folks, even if it's not perfect.

 

[s0c9]

Oh, I see...... yes, that can definitely be distracting, and I've found it's simply a matter of establishing a routine that involves spending a few moments at the start of a session discussing how the mix sounds, usually by playing a short song, then discussing and making adjustments.

Of course I do know that is easier said than done, as some folks just want to get in and go, ha, but don't forget, there is a "Chat" function on the right side where you can type stuff that everybody in the session will see, so you might try communicating that way.

Anyway, many times these things will get worked out over time, so be patient and for now simply enjoy it for what it is, an opportunity to at least play with folks, even if it's not perfect.

Agreed... exploring it to see if it can be used by a) my band or b) my church band from practice purposes!
Church band meets to record on Tues nights as it goes out via zoom on Wed nights.
Other band hasn't rehearsed in... at least a year! Didn't need to when playing frequently.. we're all getting a little rusty right now!

 

[enzodm]

Some notes on Jamulus, which is barely mentioned in the thread. We are using it, with latency that makes things difficult if you are serious, but for the fun part of playing together, it is worth a try. Jamulus is actively developed.
First of all, we were up to 6, missing the drummer only (until now).
Jamulus (client) is easy to install, almost no one had issues. One of the singers did not have an audio interface and left his microphones in the rehearsal room, but joined using a smartphone headset with ASIO4ALL drivers (on Windows, on mac is not needed).
Jamulus has public servers, freely provided by users. You may join them, and have your band co-exist with others by muting who you do not want to hear. However, you may also set up your own private server.
In our case, we have a private server set on an AWS machine that I start before rehearsal and close just after. Cost is <1$ per hour (and can be much less with a cheaper machine). You may do the same on Google Cloud. AWS and Google provided better ping times than a server I have on a network in my city. You may even set a server at home, if upload speed is >300Kbit/s per player. On the server you may set recording of sessions as single tracks and then mix.
I am connected through a cheap Ammoon mixer to send my voice too (part of the fun, but Jamulus has also a chat subsystem to communicate), however initially I used an iRig interface to the audio input of my Mac.
You need to isolate from your local sound as much as possible to be synced with the others.
The overall experience is slightly heterogeneous, however since we never were great musicians, the expectations were sufficiently low. Playing relatively slow music is easier, although in general we tend to slow down.
It has been the first time we had to ask guitar players to increase the volume...

 

[JKos]

we have a private server set on an AWS machine

If you haven't already, could you post a step-by-step guide to doing this? If one already exists, could you point us to it?

Are any of the free AWS options usable for this?

Thanks,
John

 

[enzodm]

If you haven't already, could you post a step-by-step guide to doing this? If one already exists, could you point us to it?

The main docs for running a server are here:
corrados/jamulus
In particular, linux, and "headless server". There are some untold things, but in case I am happy to help.
There are also ways to run a server from home, however you need good upload bandwidth (at least 200kbps per player). And low ping times, of course.

Are any of the free AWS options usable for this?

t1.micro is the kind of instance that is given for free for the first 12 months (other free tier services are forever, this one not). If you play very often, you may exceed the free tier data transfer limit (however, it is not that expensive).
T1.micro in principle is usable, and in fact is what we initially used and still have running, however it is not clear how much bandwidth it really allows. Thus we experimented with other instances where the one we use now is c5.large. T3.small is another cheap alternative, apparently.
Google Cloud has something similar but only in USA, so for me is too far.

 

[dlb1001]

I was in a Facebook group for quite a while where they would come up with a new theme every week, and either individually or in a group, create or cover a song pertaining to the theme. The only we could to it with other folks around the country and around the world was to record your part (to a click track so everyone would be on the same page), video it, and send it to a central drop location where someone would grab all the tracks and mix them. Someone else would grab all the video and make one video.

That's what I did with some former bandmates. The BL wanted to do "Comfortably Numb" so he gave everyone a track with their particular instrument taken out of the mix then added a click to it. So, we used those individualized tracks for practice then used it as a guide track, when we recorded our parts. We sent all of the parts back to the BL then he put together into one video.

 

[Basically Bob]

Here’s a link to a collaborative effort that we just finished: It’s kinda rough but it works for us.

it’s an old Gram Parsons tune.



The “geek” in our group uses a Corel video editor. I think it costs around $80.00 CDN. My understanding is that there are limitations in terms of controlling volume levels for each of the players’ videos but it sure has been a lot of fun and has given me the opportunity to connect with buddies that are too far away to see, regularly.

Each of us set up a Google drive. We save our videos there and share them with the other members of the group. The producer grabs the videos from his Google drive and puts them together.

Here’s the process: whoever leads the song shares to the group, from his google drive, a video of himself playing. I listen to the song through my phone with headphones and record myself playing along with the leader with an iPad. I store the video on my Google drive and share it to the producer. He grabs it and does his magic.

For practicing, the acoustic trio I play with has a private Facebook group. The leader of a song simply posts a video of himself playing and heads up the video with the title of the song. I play along to the videos for practice. Pretty simple but it’s a great practice tool. We have more than 30 songs posted to the group now.

 

[triode6L6a]

Hey Bob, I just listened to that song with a nice set of headphones, and I want to tell you that it was extremely pleasant sounding. In fact, I'm listening to again as I'm typing this! Your "geek" really knows his stuff. The video looks great and the mix is sublime, and man, that bass sounds gooood. Just perfect.

Thanks for the lowdown on your process. I find it simply amazing what we are able to accomplish with today's technology, and of course, with the help of the band "geek".

 

[Basically Bob]

Hey Bob, I just listened to that song with a nice set of headphones, and I want to tell you that it was extremely pleasant sounding. In fact, I'm listening to again as I'm typing this! Your "geek" really knows his stuff. The video looks great and the mix is sublime, and man, that bass sounds gooood. Just perfect.

Thanks for the lowdown on your process. I find it simply amazing what we are able to accomplish with today's technology, and of course, with the help of the band "geek".

thanks so much! Really appreciate it

 

[SLIV]

We’ve been discussing the audio side of things but from the video side, honestly, it’s much more powerful and interesting to see one player at a time (creatively shot) than the Brady Bunch or Zoom style of boxes. It’s the power of the “cut” and why filmmakers rarely use split screen. Action and reaction. Direct the viewers eyes, no different than mixing audio. What is loudest is what you’re supposed to pay attention to.

 

[SteveC]

We all have gear now to record and share tracks so we’re going to give it a shot. No video at this time, just audio.

 

[Kro]

We’ve been discussing the audio side of things but from the video side, honestly, it’s much more powerful and interesting to see one player at a time (creatively shot) than the Brady Bunch or Zoom style of boxes.

I disagree; not when you're going for the: let's all have fun from home, living room concert, self-isolation style.

Emulating a teleconference video is where it's at for that look, and it's purposeful. I'm editing one together myself right now.

Sure, I could edit it a million different ways, but this is what the world needs at this point in time.

 

[Kro]

Here’s a link to a collaborative effort that we just finished: It’s kinda rough but it works for us.

it’s an old Gram Parsons tune.



The “geek” in our group uses a Corel video editor. I think it costs around $80.00 CDN. My understanding is that there are limitations in terms of controlling volume levels for each of the players’ videos but it sure has been a lot of fun and has given me the opportunity to connect with buddies that are too far away to see, regularly.

Each of us set up a Google drive. We save our videos there and share them with the other members of the group. The producer grabs the videos from his Google drive and puts them together.

Here’s the process: whoever leads the song shares to the group, from his google drive, a video of himself playing. I listen to the song through my phone with headphones and record myself playing along with the leader with an iPad. I store the video on my Google drive and share it to the producer. He grabs it and does his magic.

For practicing, the acoustic trio I play with has a private Facebook group. The leader of a song simply posts a video of himself playing and heads up the video with the title of the song. I play along to the videos for practice. Pretty simple but it’s a great practice tool. We have more than 30 songs posted to the group now.

I'm trying to assemble some videos of this style as recorded by actual TB members into a thread over in the recordings forum. No takers yet, and mine won't be done probably for a day or two (waiting for just one member to finish his tracks ).

Any chance you'd be willing to share there? Same goes for any other members that have completed one of these in this style already!

TalkBass Together at Home

 

[Basically Bob]

I'm trying to assemble some videos of this style as recorded by actual TB members into a thread over in the recordings forum. No takers yet, and mine won't be done probably for a day or two (waiting for just one member to finish his tracks ).

Any chance you'd be willing to share there? Same goes for any other members that have completed one of these in this style already!

TalkBass Together at Home

... done

 

[triode6L6a]

We’ve been discussing the audio side of things but from the video side, honestly, it’s much more powerful and interesting to see one player at a time (creatively shot) than the Brady Bunch or Zoom style of boxes. It’s the power of the “cut” and why filmmakers rarely use split screen. Action and reaction. Direct the viewers eyes, no different than mixing audio. What is loudest is what you’re supposed to pay attention to.

While I enjoy a well cut music video, I found this nice side-by-side video to a lot of fun to watch. Nothing wrong with either way, it's simply a matter of respecting the producer's choice and enjoying it for what it is.

 

[Kro]

My humble take. As noted, not live, but we did what we could to give it that vibe (including the webex style orientation) And it 100% was recorded from our individual homes with nothing more than the gear that we had on-hand when social distancing started in earnest.

 

[triode6L6a]

Kro, that was highly enjoyable. If there is one silver lining to this whole quarantine thing, it's that it's really bringing local bands out into the world spotlight. Great job!

 

[pcake]

This can help. But it's your UPLOAD speed that matters the most for real-time colaboration.
Then there are the simple matters of the PC/laptop hardware, OS, ADC, wireless ( bad ), router ( usually bad ), etc. Nothin' but rain here man, sorry. ( this does prove how I can manage to post so much BS on TB )

View attachment 3797912

It doesn't matter much if you're wireless or not, unless your connection is so weak that you're experiencing dropouts.

It works the same way that online gaming works: Basically, rather than trying to reduce the latency to zero (which is impossible because physics), the latency is increased so that everybody is experiencing the same "lag," which allows for real time collaboration.

Need a dedicated, hardwired internet connection, not WIFI and the internet needs to be fast. If you have money, you can have those things. Most of us don't have that level of connectivity, so it doesn't work well.

i have periodic dropouts without a weak connection.

am i fast enough to be able to jam live, do you think, if everything else were in place?

 

[JimmyM]

My humble take. As noted, not live, but we did what we could to give it that vibe (including the webex style orientation) And it 100% was recorded from our individual homes with nothing more than the gear that we had on-hand when social distancing started in earnest.

Teee-riffic, Kro! I liked it when the drummer starts going off the 2 and 4 with the snare. Quite unexpected and cool.