Double Bass How to approach Petracchi - Simplified Higher Technique

[Les Fret]

Petracchi figured out a stable, proven system. Don't use it if you don't want to, but it works and works well.

I am not questioning Petracchis system. I also use it. But you don't necessarily have to know or think in terms of the names of the positions when you are playing.

 

[mcnaire2004]

I am not questioning Petracchis system. I also use it. But you don't necessarily have to know or think in terms of the names of the positions when you are playing.

Correct.

The name of a position doesn’t matter. Labels are only here to facilitate communication. It doesn’t matter what you call something as long as someone knows what you are talking about.

In the world of bass academia; different bass teachers use different terminology all the time for the same thing. Actually I see arguments between people were they believe they are arguing a special technique. In reality it turns out they are arguing about a different description of the same thing.

Some guys create their own ideas for publication without checking to see if it is already published. Frequently I look through technique books that seem to be an alteration of Simandl. I am not sure if it is a clever way to make money or if is presenting something in an ever so slightly different way to help someone learn. I have found great use in things that incorporate solid methods so I don’t care much about this, but I think it goes to the point.

The simple fact is you cannot learn technique from any book. Books typically only give us exercises to practice and develop technique we learned through teachers.

I have noticed when studying with advocates of a particular technique or the creator of one; the first reaction is “wow they literally mean what they say.” Then as time goes on, you start to get “loop holes” or special ideas that come from a different (or a competing) technique in certain situations (whether the source of the idea is cited as another technique or a special idea gained from the teacher, or the teachers teacher). Later, you are able to use discretion on such things. Then you come away thinking you have some special knowledge on the technique that you can put into a book.

When I see multiple techniques I find plenty of common ground on most of the ideas. Whatever technique someone ties themselves down to the important thing is they develop an ear and as a musician.

I am probably a liberal when it comes to technique. I did adopt a teqhnique from some one who invented it. I myself thought it was radical and took time for me to realize it was the best for me. It takes some habit breaking to learn (including habits that would be considered “good” in more conventional techniques). I'm not promoting it here, just thought that it would speak to where I was coming from.

 

[damonsmith]

I am not questioning Petracchis system. I also use it. But you don't necessarily have to know or think in terms of the names of the positions when you are playing.

Old thread! Yes, you know we both agree on that - no one really thinks of positions in terms of neck locations once we get on with it. However, Petracchi is actually naming hand shapes which actually are useful to consider up there.

 

[LouisF]

Jean-Marc Rollez and his method are not very well known in the US. He was quite an extraordinary French bassist:



His 3 Volume Methode is very technical (and frankly a bit much at times) but worth a look for thumb position exercises. I've attached Vol. 3. Vols 1 & 2 are available online. I have them and I am happy to post or send pdfs if anyone is interested.

 

[damonsmith]

There are a lot of great etudes out there. I think Petracchi lays out something that might seem simple or "common sense" now, but working with the two positions spanning a major and minor third and connecting them with the the respective thirds of a Major scale is a pretty big leap. It isn't an "overall" method like Simandl or Rabbath, but it is very valuable information if you don't have it.
If you look at the order of thirds in a Maj. scale:MmmMMmm and drill that with the Peracchi positions: S.Cr/Cr/Cr/S.Cr/S.Cr/Cr/Cr you are going to find anything written in or around a key way easier to navigate with that under your fingers.
You can of course, apply it to any scale you need to use.
Also, having a reliable chromatic line spanning either third to work with is extremely valuable in any jazz context. It can be made into a variety of "licks" if you need that sort of thing.
It is a small book focused on a very specific but useful concept.

 

[shepdave]

I’ll chime in on the newly-revised old thread to thank damonsmith for the enthusiastic endorsement of the Petracchi book earlier in this thread (years ago). I finally bought the book a couple weeks ago based on that enthusiasm.

I’ve been in it for just about a week now, and am still just working with exercise 2a. But I understood immediately that this business of moving the hand shapes up and down the fingerboard was quite different from other approaches to thumb position I had encountered. Those approaches generally guided me toward plopping the thumb down, almost always at octave G position or higher, and staying right there, more or less; using the thumb as a “capo” and playing with the rest of the fingers in front of that.

Those shiftless scales and Clarke thumb drills and so on were frustrating (to me), uncomfortable, and stationary. Petracchi’s movement up and down the string, on the other hand, has seemed to open up the fingerboard to new possibilities. Starting the earliest exercises at D on the G string provides me a way to seamlessly transition from “down low” to “up there.”

So thanks, damonsmith!

 

[paulunger]

FYI, there's a nice book by Chris West titled "Reaching The Heights" that is a good primer to work on before jumping into Petracchi's book. I've had some students that had a hard time understanding and using the Petracchi book, but Chris West's book simplifies the concepts and gives time for the younger student to work on their hand shapes.

 

[Andy Mopley]

FYI, there's a nice book by Chris West titled "Reaching The Heights" that is a good primer to work on before jumping into Petracchi's book. I've had some students that had a hard time understanding and using the Petracchi book, but Chris West's booBook..."

Chris West Music Blog Nice website too...Interestingly, Simandl White Book never gets too much of a look in when it comes to thumb position exercises..In fact, doesn't get mentioned or used all that much from what I can see / read here!!

 

[LouisF]

Just fyi on Thumb position fingering:

 

[Calvin Marks]

If you have studied with Petracchi directly or at minimum a well versed student of his the book will make a lot more sense. Otherwise it is a bit difficult to approach. Francesco could use the thumb all over the instrument, even when play standing - no issue.

I used to do it cover to cover every day - it was a brutal work out.

 

[vinnycolletti]

A quick question for the Petracchi folks. For ex 2b, my copy shows using fingers 1,3,4 starting at the open G all the way up to thumb position on the D. 1&3 for a 1/2 step. I watched this guy-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIAkbd25jG8 play it and he is using 1,2,4 like a standard fingering. Seems like Petracchi had a reason for his fingering or I'm reading it wrong. Anyway I like the idea of being able to start thumb position on D on the G string.

 

[neilG]

Italians use 3rd finger instead of 2nd in 3 finger technique in the lower positions. Can't say why or how that evolved, some say the 3rd finger is inherently stronger. Violinists have told me that.
As for thumb position: thumb position is anywhere you use your thumb. I once saw Ron Carter play a lick using his thumb in first position.

 

[vinnycolletti]

Thanks Neil, I will continue using the 3rd finger approach. It demonstrated that it was collapsing so I think work on thumb placement behind the neck is in order. Petracchi method, good stuff.

 

[neilG]

I'm curious, why are you going with 3rd finger? The majority of the bass-playing world uses 2nd.

 

[vinnycolletti]

3rd finger for the exercises anyway. I'll see where it goes for a little while.

 

[damonsmith]

3rd finger for the exercises anyway. I'll see where it goes for a little while.

I once hurt my middle finger and then just did 134 and worked out of Billie for a week. It is a nice way to play. In general, Italian bass players sound great!

 

[peteswanson91]

I found by simply going through the book each day my fingerboard knowledge in thumb position expanded exponentially…..opened up new doorways and understanding of music as movement