How To Blow Your Audition

[Altitude]

Not the same. It sounds like quite the PA and if everyone has IEMs you don’t even need a bass amp, just a DI into the PA. A PA like that truly is for the whole band and your bass amp is really just for you.

OK - suppose I agree, but my main point was what the “cut” is paying for. Is it reimbursement for the cost of the PA, for services to set it up and tear it down, or all of the above? I don’t really mind the cut, I don’t do this for the money anyway. It does bug me a little to have to stay an hour more after the gig than I otherwise would helping break down the PA, for which someone else is getting paid. Nobody helps me - or more notably the drummer - break down and pack out our rigs.

By the way, this is not a huge issue I lose sleep over. It’s just a topic that came along and I hit “reply.”

 

[richntiff]

Auditioning for a band... what a nightmare in my mind.

Years ago, unbeknownst to me, a recent neighbor/buddy of mine and his old musician/band buddies decided that, because this Marko guy had some assets and minimal skills that would help with the creation of a band, I'd be a candidate for bass player, rehearsal host and PA guy (also lyricist at the time), and we were brought together to meet/jam, and the process of manipulating me were executed.

Sooo somewhere in that process I passed an audition of sorts, and many years, much band drama, money and stress later, I'm a bass player in a covers band, same original buddy, fortunately different other guys.

As for auditioning others, I'm quite horrible at it as I'm a hopeless softie IRL (don't tell anybody), I like everybody, and someone else has to be wise one.

As for the PA argument.... as the PA guy in a band where we get $100 per man, I don't feel there's room to charge anything extra- I already have the gear and trailer, long-since paid for, everybody else brings some skills of value to the table that I'm not good at, so I'm comfortable with that.

But the bass player also brings a rig from which everyone benefits, and the PA is a whoooole 'nuther expense, and it's NOT unreasonable for him/her to get some extra bit of a cut for the expense, maintenance and extra labor (which is more than what happens at the gig) involved .

I'm not talking about band members investing in PA gear they don't own, btw... I wouldn't do that, either.

I've seen bands where members supply various pieces that they own and take with them if they part, which is also a legitimate formula.

=-=-=
Edit to add a little tip for worthy players who want to be in a band without having to audition...

PA and/or good rehearsal space (especially with a nice drum kit) will get you ahead of the next guy.

this is a very good post.

 

[Stewie]

In my first gighing band, I bought the PA ( simple Peavey stuff ) and took the first $10 from the pay until we reached the resale value of the gear. Everyone was happy. I lost money on the resale
We also took gig money to keep the beer fridge stocked. I sure miss that band.

 

[vinylphile]

OK - suppose I agree, but my main point was what the “cut” is paying for. Is it reimbursement for the cost of the PA, for services to set it up and tear it down, or all of the above? I don’t really mind the cut, I don’t do this for the money anyway. It does bug me a little to have to stay an hour more after the gig than I otherwise would helping break down the PA, for which someone else is getting paid. Nobody helps me - or more notably the drummer - break down and pack out our rigs.

By the way, this is not a huge issue I lose sleep over. It’s just a topic that came along and I hit “reply.”

The way it SHOULD work in an ideal situation is everyone should help each other load / unload equipment until all is done. Everyone’s instruments and the PA are at the service of the whole band’s performance. Of course that rarely happens in real life, but that’s what SHOULD happen.

 

[Low End Scum]

- Being completely inflexible at all to work with
- Not being in line with what type of situation it is
- Ego

Honestly, when auditioning people, folks who would come off as super uptight and difficult to work with was the biggest red flag next to getting off on the wrong foot (IE, prolly ask if you can smoke inside before sparking up, or maybe only bring one 40 oz instead of two). If someone I had never met before came in to do an audition and the first thing that they asked me about was what the cash payout looked like (and that was, like, the big number one line in the sand question they had) I'd be assuming they're pawning things to survive or thought that they were a "shrewd businessman" on their way to being rockstars. Thing was, any of my bands that were worth a darn never had to audition strangers. We'd all gigged enough and knew enough solid other musicians that'd either be into jumping on or knew a person that was, and they'd vouch for them/show us their other groups. Unless you were new in town or just had a birthday making you old enough to get into most gigging places then there'd probably be a significant reason that you were auditioning with strangers and at that point it'd just come off that you (as my ex FIL would say) "didn't understand what you rate as".

This is, of course, from the perspective of an originals band. I could see it being different for dedicated cover bands mostly because I sorta view that as a different kind of entertainment and because you'd have to pay me to be in one.

And in contrast to some of y'alls experiences instead of the BL running off with all the money, we ended up outright purchasing a van that we used and paying for the whole album off the gig money. We also paid for a PA with gig money. Even helped carry it in cause the guitarist and keyboardist pulled double duty as singers, but mostly because we weren't jerks. You could even say I'm a bit of a Mother Theresa character since I also helped my drummer during load-in without getting a cut! In all seriousness, I cannot imagine how awkward it'd be to load in my 115, class D head, pedalboard, and bass (all in 1 or 2 trips) and then just sit there while the rest of the band was still actively moving more of the equipment in from the street/van/parking lot.

 

[HolmeBass]

Let me know when you mic up the drums and guitars, dump them along with keys and lead and backing vox, and then pipe them through your bass rig. Then we can talk. The PA supports the entire band. Your rig is important, yes - but it's not the PA. I'm not sure how much clearer that can be.

What are going to mic up exactly if there is no drum kit, and no guitar amps? What would the point of a PA even be without drums, bass, and guitar? You just sing a cappella- why even bother with the PA?

I have and will run the vox through a guitar amp or a channel on the keyboard amp.

If you cannot see the inherent chicken-and-egg nature of this, and thus the lack in your argument, I cannot help you any further. I don’t need a PA to perform.

 

[richntiff]

I have and will run the vox through a guitar amp or a channel on the keyboard amp.

Yeah. We used to do this. In high school.

 

[Low End Scum]

What are going to mic up exactly if there is no drum kit, and no guitar amps? What would the point of a PA even be without drums, bass, and guitar? You just sing a cappella- why even bother with the PA?

I have and will run the vox through a guitar amp or a channel on the keyboard amp.

If you cannot see the inherent chicken-and-egg nature of this, and thus the lack in your argument, I cannot help you any further. I don’t need a PA to perform.

The thing that terrifies and enrages probably half of the entirety of TB.......a backing track, being played off of (apparently) the single biggest destroyer of the music industry other than young people, a computer!!!!

Yeah. We used to do this. In high school.

I can't imagine being so entirely against helping your bandmate that still has extra things to do in order to get the show on the road that you'd instead choose to have a worse sound.

 

[Verb the Noun]

Thanks for reminding me why I stay in the bedroom

I didn't know it was so common for people not to learn songs before auditions. I was in an originals band and a drummer showed up without listening to any of the songs beforehand

We had to hunt for a new drummer a few years back. Damn close to across the board, almost NO ONE bothered to learn the original songs we sent before scheduling the audition. We auditioned a lot of drummers. ONE guy showed that he had put some work in learning the songs. We gave him a shot, only to discover he had not been playing drums for long and was not a good enough drummer. His best work was at the audition, it never got any better.

We then settled for the best of the lot who winged it. Fantastically talented dude, but he would not have gotten the spot if the noob drummer had been just a smidge better.

Baffled me, I showed up with almost every song they sent me learned when I tried out. Asked the guys "***, why do drummers not bother to work on the material?" Got back "Dude, bass players were the same. You were one of the only ones who showed up knowing any of the songs."

 

[Mastermold]

We had to hunt for a new drummer a few years back. Damn close to across the board, almost NO ONE bothered to learn the original songs we sent before scheduling the audition. We auditioned a lot of drummers. ONE guy showed that he had put some work in learning the songs. We gave him a shot, only to discover he had not been playing drums for long and was not a good enough drummer. His best work was at the audition, it never got any better.

We then settled for the best of the lot who winged it. Fantastically talented dude, but he would not have gotten the spot if the noob drummer had been just a smidge better.

Baffled me, I showed up with almost every song they sent me learned when I tried out. Asked the guys "***, why do drummers not bother to work on the material?" Got back "Dude, bass players were the same. You were one of the only ones who showed up knowing any of the songs."

Drummer in the church band I play in is a solid professional who not only learns the new songs he often charts them out if they are particularly difficult. Grateful for his talent and dedication.

 

[richntiff]

We had to hunt for a new drummer a few years back. Damn close to across the board, almost NO ONE bothered to learn the original songs we sent before scheduling the audition. We auditioned a lot of drummers. ONE guy showed that he had put some work in learning the songs. We gave him a shot, only to discover he had not been playing drums for long and was not a good enough drummer. His best work was at the audition, it never got any better.

We then settled for the best of the lot who winged it. Fantastically talented dude, but he would not have gotten the spot if the noob drummer had been just a smidge better.

Baffled me, I showed up with almost every song they sent me learned when I tried out. Asked the guys "***, why do drummers not bother to work on the material?" Got back "Dude, bass players were the same. You were one of the only ones who showed up knowing any of the songs."

this is so common, and it's INSANE to me. I'd never ever show up unprepared. I can't wrap my brain around it.

 

[Low End Scum]

this is so common, and it's INSANE to me. I'd never ever show up unprepared. I can't wrap my brain around it.

I definitely think I surprised a lot of folks I chatted with when looking for a new musical home after moving here. Asking if they had charts and recordings. I suppose it makes folks think I'm more prepared in general than I actually am. Secret is, I loathe jamming and am anxious so being able to rehearse the things I KNOW are gonna come up puts me way more at ease.

 

[75Ric]

This is a great point. How the band can blow the audition for me:

Don't have answers for the above points as well as:

• Tell me the song I need to learn but don't bother telling me you play it in a different key or worse - don't know what key you play it in at all.
• I show up on time and the band rolls in one at a time over the next 30 minutes.
• Have a bad drummer or off-key singer.
• Act like I just committed a felony when I tell you I scheduled other auditions and will get back to you.
• As I'm setting up my gear, current band member takes a giant bong rip like he's still in college.
  
  Not a complete list.

Went to an audition once. Learned the five songs the band leader sent me. Knew them by heart and could play them well. Arrived a little early, brought my gear down some rickety stairs into a basement rehearsal space and set up. Met most of the other band members and then waited, and waited, and waited .... for about a half hour.

The drummer never showed up.

The keys player had a drum pad and decided to "play drums" with his left hand off the pad and piano with his right. Oh my, what a catastrophe. He either tripped up the rhythm or the melody, stopping frequently mid-song to restart. I thought I'd never get through that "audition." They were surprised when I turned them down ("we play so well together"). They had no clue I was auditioning them as much as they were auditioning me.

 

[richntiff]

I definitely think I surprised a lot of folks I chatted with when looking for a new musical home after moving here. Asking if they had charts and recordings. I suppose it makes folks think I'm more prepared in general than I actually am. Secret is, I loathe jamming and am anxious so being able to rehearse the things I KNOW are gonna come up puts me way more at ease.

I detest jamming - to the point that when someone hits me with 'dude, we should get together and JAM' - I literally run the opposite direction. I have exactly zero interest in it.

 

[Low End Scum]

I detest jamming - to the point that when someone hits me with 'dude, we should get together and JAM' - I literally run the opposite direction. I have exactly zero interest in it.

I've gone for it just cause of how sparse bands are where I'm at but if I could, I would. My old rock band was a democracy and a "jam till the song finishes itself" sort of situation. I can get a one off if it's a new project that doesn't have anything other than an idea, but if that's just what happens at every "practice" then I get flashbacks and am out.

 

[Verb the Noun]

Secret is, I loathe jamming

I detest jamming

Slight derail topic, but fascinating. I can see being annoyed at free from dude who never bothers to actually learn anything, but being able to improvise musical responses to what others are doing is a seriously beneficial thing to have in your toolkit. To me, its THE defining skill that separates those who can create music from those who play music.

I got my spot in my current band because of my ability and willingness to jam. My competition charted every song and was definitely a FAR more trained musician than I, but froze up when they guys said "OK, just jam something". My response "OK, I'm in A. 1,2,3,4" was what ultimately got me that job.

 

[Low End Scum]

Slight derail topic, but fascinating. I can see being annoyed at free from dude who never bothers to actually learn anything, but being able to improvise musical responses to what others are doing is a seriously beneficial thing to have in your toolkit. To me, its THE defining skill that separates those who can create music from those who play music.

I got my spot in my current band because of my ability and willingness to jam. My competition charted every song and was definitely a FAR more trained musician than I, but froze up when they guys said "OK, just jam something". My response "OK, I'm in A. 1,2,3,4" was what ultimately got me that job.

So, I get that and I can do it, but I don't want to do that every practice/rehearsal for half or more of the practice/rehearsal. I get it at an audition, I get it for fun, but for years these guys I was gigging with would insist on that for 100% of the writing. Would insist on jamming instead of running a set to make sure the parts of the set that were also jams were well defined and got nailed. The writing process and experience was so bloated and full of pointless 15 minute sections of just.....wankery that never produced anything.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Noodles is yet one more...I hate noodles when auditioning(which ever side I see this from) or during rehearsals.

Noodling is another whole sub-category of cringe. When I was young, I attended an audition where the drummer did non-stop fills whenever we weren't playing. Nothing got communicated other than the BL's wife (the real BL) yelling "HEY! LET'S PLAY... (drum fill) HEY!...(drum fill) HEY! SHUT THE __ (drum fill)."

Keyboard player in another band I auditioned for a few years earlier noodled constantly, playing the exact same Emerson Lake and Palmer bit, non-stop, filling every space, until I felt like strangling the guy with his unplugged power cord. I had no idea where I stood in the audition because he played over the BL every time he opened his mouth.

My current band doesn't do auditions; They use enough subs from time to time that if someone quits, they offer the job to someone who's subbed (how I got the gig). For gigs, the unspoken rule is show up early, get your stuff set up and do a quick dial-in with your bass, drums, guitar, horn, then put it down and walk away. During our act, nobody plays anything other than the songs.

It's kind of an unspoken rule with all the regulars I'm lucky enough to work with around here. When someone shows themselves to be a noodler, it's almost always a big tell of a non-pro.

 

[Hasty]

Slight derail topic, but fascinating. I can see being annoyed at free from dude who never bothers to actually learn anything, but being able to improvise musical responses to what others are doing is a seriously beneficial thing to have in your toolkit. To me, its THE defining skill that separates those who can create music from those who play music.

I got my spot in my current band because of my ability and willingness to jam. My competition charted every song and was definitely a FAR more trained musician than I, but froze up when they guys said "OK, just jam something". My response "OK, I'm in A. 1,2,3,4" was what ultimately got me that job.

I love jamming with jazz people... however, the last time I got together with some Rock/Top 40 type friends the jam was lackluster and disappointing. I will qualify this by saying they really aren't very good musicians so no matter what genre, it probably wouldn't have been much fun.

 

[Verb the Noun]

The writing process and experience was so bloated and full of pointless 15 minute sections of just.....wankery that never produced anything.

Yep, you got stuck with someone decent enough at improvising they used it as a crutch. Fair take to be put off from that experience. Agree that would be obnoxious as hell. Improvising a 15 min wankery bridge the first pass is fun. But, if that song is turning into a real song intended to be in the band's set... it bloody well ought to be codified a smidge more each time the group plays it until the structure is locked, even if some sections are still intended to be improvised each time. I'm impressed you lasted years in that situation, I'd bounce from a band who couldn't finish songs a lot sooner.