How To Blow Your Audition

[Low End Scum]

Yep, you got stuck with someone decent enough at improvising they used it as a crutch. Fair take to be put off from that experience. Agree that would be obnoxious as hell. Improvising a 15 min wankery bridge the first pass is fun. But, if that song is turning into a real song intended to be in the band's set... it bloody well ought to be codified a smidge more each time the group plays it until the structure is locked, even if some sections are still intended to be improvised each time. I'm impressed you lasted years in that situation, I'd bounce from a band who couldn't finish songs a lot sooner.

Oh, it was worse than that. We practiced twice a week and frequently there'd be a "jam" that'd approach an hour. Why did I stick around? Because we played a ton of gigs and I was in my very early 20's when this started. I got to play in every venue I ever had dreamed of playing before I got into my first bands. We were making money playing originals that paid for a van and album. And I truly loved spending time with my buddies. That jamming nonsense though was the biggest irritation of the entire experience.

 

[cnltb]

Noodling is another whole sub-category of cringe. When I was young, I attended an audition where the drummer did non-stop fills whenever we weren't playing. Nothing got communicated other than the BL's wife (the real BL) yelling "HEY! LET'S PLAY... (drum fill) HEY!...(drum fill) HEY! SHUT THE __ (drum fill)."

Keyboard player in another band I auditioned for a few years earlier noodled constantly, playing the exact same Emerson Lake and Palmer bit, non-stop, filling every space, until I felt like strangling the guy with his unplugged power cord. I had no idea where I stood in the audition because he played over the BL every time he opened his mouth.

My current band doesn't do auditions; They use enough subs from time to time that if someone quits, they offer the job to someone who's subbed (how I got the gig). For gigs, the unspoken rule is show up early, get your stuff set up and do a quick dial-in with your bass, drums, guitar, horn, then put it down and walk away. During our act, nobody plays anything other than the songs.

It's kind of an unspoken rule with all the regulars I'm lucky enough to work with around here. When someone shows themselves to be a noodler, it's almost always a big tell of a non-pro.

Yes.

 

[RGerhart]

The way it SHOULD work in an ideal situation is everyone should help each other load / unload equipment until all is done. Everyone’s instruments and the PA are at the service of the whole band’s performance. Of course that rarely happens in real life, but that’s what SHOULD happen.

This. This is the best post I've seen about this so far. The point being is that paying extra for the P.A. shouldn't be an issue because everyone should help loading in gear, and tearing down. I've yet to be in a band, however, where the singer didn't know how to wind up a cord; the guitar player split after the last song within five minutes; or the drummer decided to show up ten minutes before downbeat.

 

[P1KW]

Hi.
-Appear to the first audition with a headless 6 string for a classic R&R band.
-Ask the singer/guitarist/composer about the nature of a chord, hearing with surprise that power-chords have no color and having to explain that if the previous chord was a C, and it plays several Fs, the A will logically be minor. ..
-Discovering that one (1 of 15) of the chorus lasts 5 bars instead of 4... Asking why and hearing that... "That one came out like that"... "?"
(The reality is that he needed time in his voice)
-At this point the singer/guitarist/songwriter and I knew perfectly well that we were never going to be good friends professionally...
-To put the icing on the cake, there was a white silence at the end of a brigde to enter the chorus, it came in with a small drum fill and screamed for a bass ornament... which logically I did... That unleashed the apocalypse ...and the end of the audition.

Greetings!

 

[vinylphile]

This. This is the best post I've seen about this so far. The point being is that paying extra for the P.A. shouldn't be an issue because everyone should help loading in gear, and tearing down. I've yet to be in a band, however, where the singer didn't know how to wind up a cord; the guitar player split after the last song within five minutes; or the drummer decided to show up ten minutes before downbeat.

Yeah…I’d say right now I’m around 3/5 of the way there LOL. In my current band there are 3 of us (myself, guitarist, drummer) who basically arrive 1 to 2 hours early to set up (depending on venue and requirements) and stay until the last piece of everyone’s equipment is packed up in the car. This includes the entire PA at venues where we are supplying that. The PA is part band-owned (from gig money) and part individual member-owned (the 3 of us), all kind of thrown together to make it work.

The singer usually arrives 5 min before sound check or start time and I could swear she’s already half-way out the door while we’re playing our last song. Amazing singer…but singers will be singers LOL. The keyboardist is a bit of a moving part at present but usually only really involved in their own equipment.

In my opinion, a PA is really equipment at the service of the whole band. In our band it is used not just for the lead vocalist but also for 2-3 backups, kick drum mic, sometimes keyboards…and for larger gigs, everything really.

All in all, not bad. The core 3 of us are basically in charge.

 

[Paul New]

Ask for an advance on your first gig before you play. I know for a fact that this will affect your chances.

 

[Hasty]

I've yet to be in a band, however, where the singer didn't know how to wind up a cord; the guitar player split after the last song within five minutes; or the drummer decided to show up ten minutes before downbeat.

Occasionally there's a band I'll sub with and at the end of the gig their guitarist is walking out the door before I can even turn around and shut off the power to my amp. Everyone else just shrugs and starts to tear down the PA. Blows my mind every time.

 

[HolmeBass]

The thing that terrifies and enrages probably half of the entirety of TB.......a backing track, being played off of (apparently) the single biggest destroyer of the music industry other than young people, a computer!!!!

I can't imagine being so entirely against helping your bandmate that still has extra things to do in order to get the show on the road that you'd instead choose to have a worse sound.

I will help setup and move a PA, I won’t help pay for it!

My mate sometimes brings a PA and we throw him an extra $25 - $50, but not a whole other share like he gets paid twice. Besides, having the engineer out front is what makes renting one worthwhile.

 

[HolmeBass]

Yeah. We used to do this. In high school.

Whenever a band mate brings his PA, we only run vocals through it. Not worth an entire share of the night’s proceeds.

 

[Low End Scum]

I will help setup and move a PA, I won’t help pay for it!

My mate sometimes brings a PA and we throw him an extra $25 - $50, but not a whole other share like he gets paid twice. Besides, having the engineer out front is what makes renting one worthwhile.

I mean, I get that. I wouldn't go in with people I don't know terribly well with some co-ownership type thing on a PA. However, I have been in a band where we used gig money for things like a PA or Van. When the band broke up it was sold and split 4 ways (eventually). At first we were going to soldier on without the drummer and just continue using it at our practice space.

When your mate brings one, are they also performing in a band? I take it that's what you mean by not getting a "whole other share" right? Yeah, I'd also be of the mindset of throwin a little extra there way for the trouble.

 

[BAG]

Because the whole band will not own the PA - just the one guy who should be paying for it ends up getting a huge discount on the PA.

Generally, they are not getting a discount on their PA, they are getting remunerated for the extra work they do.

OK - suppose I agree, but my main point was what the “cut” is paying for. Is it reimbursement for the cost of the PA, for services to set it up and tear it down, or all of the above?

The PA gear doesn't magically appear at the gig all set up and ready to go. It needs to be packed, transported and, the biggest one, set up and tuned for the gig. When you add lights to the rig it's a LOT more work than just rocking up with your bass and amp to the gig.

The PA supports the entire band. Your rig is important, yes - but it's not the PA. I'm not sure how much clearer that can be.

What are going to mic up exactly if there is no drum kit, and no guitar amps? What would the point of a PA even be without drums, bass, and guitar? You just sing a cappella- why even bother with the PA?

I have and will run the vox through a guitar amp or a channel on the keyboard amp.

If you cannot see the inherent chicken-and-egg nature of this, and thus the lack in your argument, I cannot help you any further. I don’t need a PA to perform.

These would be red flags for me for sure!
When was the last time you saw a decent band without a PA?

Due to your adamant post I thought I'd check out some of your stuff online. Your band sounds really good and you appear to play some decent sized venues........ so I wasn't surprised even in the slightest that every single video of your band includes a PA.

Unless you're playing a tiny coffee shop with a singer that has some powerful pipes or you don't care how crap your band sounds you will need a PA to gig. The actual requirements will differ from band to band and venue to venue but someone has to provide the PA.

 

[HolmeBass]

I mean, I get that. I wouldn't go in with people I don't know terribly well with some co-ownership type thing on a PA. However, I have been in a band where we used gig money for things like a PA or Van. When the band broke up it was sold and split 4 ways (eventually). At first we were going to soldier on without the drummer and just continue using it at our practice space.

When your mate brings one, are they also performing in a band? I take it that's what you mean by not getting a "whole other share" right? Yeah, I'd also be of the mindset of throwin a little extra there way for the trouble.

Exactly, they are a band member. In both bands its guitarists.

You have had a singular experience of getting back money you contributed to a shared PA. In three separate instances I have not: the actual owner kept the PA and did not give any of the rest of us anything. Same for the money we set aside from gigs to record an album and a video - neither of which ever happened.

So I’ve fallen for that BS three times now - never again. I can play just fine without a PA at the vast majority of gigs I play. At the places where a PA is needed, we use the real one that comes with a sound engineer or maybe even two sound engineers.

 

[HolmeBass]

Generally, they are not getting a discount on their PA, they are getting remunerated for the extra work they do.

The PA gear doesn't magically appear at the gig all set up and ready to go. It needs to be packed, transported and, the biggest one, set up and tuned for the gig. When you add lights to the rig it's a LOT more work than just rocking up with your bass and amp to the gig.




These would be red flags for me for sure!
When was the last time you saw a decent band without a PA?

Due to your adamant post I thought I'd check out some of your stuff online. Your band sounds really good and you appear to play some decent sized venues........ so I wasn't surprised even in the slightest that every single video of your band includes a PA.

Unless you're playing a tiny coffee shop with a singer that has some powerful pipes or you don't care how crap your band sounds you will need a PA to gig. The actual requirements will differ from band to band and venue to venue but someone has to provide the PA.

I am sure that the PA in each of those photos was NOT the one the guitarist brought.

Let me be clear: the “I get two shares b/c I brought the PA” and “it’s a band PA, we’ll all chip in on it and own it together” are games I simply won’t play.

I would far, far, far prefer to hire a pro or semi-pro sound company to do that. That actually does sound better and no one is getting over on their band mates.

 

[Altitude]

I suggest we move on from the PA discussion. People either decided to buy a PA, they like it when their bands pay for it, and they have lots of reasons to rationalize. Or they didn’t buy a PA and they don’t love it when other band members get a double dip in band proceeds to pay for their gear. The responses come in along those lines, I get it. Not sure what more there is to say.

 

[Core Creek]

Occasionally there's a band I'll sub with and at the end of the gig their guitarist is walking out the door before I can even turn around and shut off the power to my amp. Everyone else just shrugs and starts to tear down the PA. Blows my mind every time.

We hire different sound companies for every gig. I’ve discussed this with the BL and his thinking is our audiences expect a certain level of sound none of us are capable of lugging around - large subs, monitors, etc. Yeah, we have to pay for it, but we sure sound good…

… so I am almost always the first or second guy out the door on my way home. I’d be surprised anyone complains about this. Sometimes being done at 1:00 or 2:00 am and an hour or hour and a half drive home - there should be no expectation for any of us to hang around like her than we need to.

Do I help move other people’s gear. No. Do I expect them to help me move in a 1x18 and 2x10? No. We all have our systems and they work.. trying to help people load gear on and out isn’t actually helpful.

Having said that, one band I played with the bassist brought the PA and he asked
me to do a couple of things before I take off. I respect that instead of hope I g i do something and never saying anything. I get it done in 5 minutes and hit the road.

 

[DWBass]

I am sure that the PA in each of those photos was NOT the one the guitarist brought.

Let me be clear: the “I get two shares b/c I brought the PA” and “it’s a band PA, we’ll all chip in on it and own it together” are games I simply won’t play.

I was in a band where NO ONE wanted to invest in or chip in for a PA, I BOUGHT THE PA. I stored it. Transported it. Set it up/broke it down. We wouldn't have been able to gig without it. I damn sure got extra. Paying for a sound company....they would get paid double or triple what each band member would get. Definitely NOT happening!

 

[Hasty]

We hire different sound companies for every gig. I’ve discussed this with the BL and his thinking is our audiences expect a certain level of sound none of us are capable of lugging around - large subs, monitors, etc. Yeah, we have to pay for it, but we sure sound good…

… so I am almost always the first or second guy out the door on my way home. I’d be surprised anyone complains about this. Sometimes being done at 1:00 or 2:00 am and an hour or hour and a half drive home - there should be no expectation for any of us to hang around like her than we need to.

Do I help move other people’s gear. No. Do I expect them to help me move in a 1x18 and 2x10? No. We all have our systems and they work.. trying to help people load gear on and out isn’t actually helpful.

Having said that, one band I played with the bassist brought the PA and he asked
me to do a couple of things before I take off. I respect that instead of hope I g i do something and never saying anything. I get it done in 5 minutes and hit the road.

I get it. And in this situation I'm a sub so I don't know the dynamics. It just strikes me as odd that he's out the door before the last musical note has decayed at the venue. Everyone else breaks down the PA, coils cables, and puts away microphones. Again, I'm a sub there and just think it's weird that out of 7 people in the band he's the only one leaving.

Any band I've been a member of that has extra equipment has shared the "everyone is a roadie" mentality and we put away our gear first, stike whatever needs to be taken care of after that, then leave together just to make sure it all gets put away and everyone is able to leave safely. I don't help the drummer pack his kit and he doesn't carry my amp to the car, but we help each other with all the "community" stuff afterward if necessary.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

It is a constant puzzle to me how people approach auditioning for bands. I've auditioned plenty of musicians for the bands I've been in, and the most common red flag to me is the one that seems to be the easiest to fix, too: showing up prepared. Say I give a guitarist five songs to learn for a cover band--nothing too difficult, and their audition is two weeks away. Without fail, without fail, they will show up not knowing at least one of the tunes. And when that tune comes up to play at the audition the usual "you know, I didn't have time to learn this one. But if you guys start playing it I can work my way through it." Bravo. Great that you can play by ear. Know what? I'd be more impressed if you actually did your homework.

The other red flags like weird personalities; tardiness; faulty equipment; bad attitudes; egos; etc, I can usually live with if they just show up and know the tunes.

As for me, I've auditioned for plenty of bands, too. I've had success in most, and all I do is show up on time; have the tunes prepared; have the right equipment; and have a good attitude. That's it.

You got it. I got the gig because after 25 previous candidates, I was the only one who did what they asked: learn these 5 tunes. I should add that they waited a couple months to tell me what happened. FWIW: Don't joint a band unless it already has a PA. And, if you're as lucky as me, a regular person who handles sound. Bill got paid the same as us, went wherever we went, whether or not there was "house sound." A major contributor to our success in the first couple years. He made sure room volume was never an issue.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

You got it. I got the gig because after 25 previous candidates, I was the only one who did what they asked: learn these 5 tunes. I should add that they waited a couple months to tell me what happened. FWIW: Don't joint a band unless it already has a PA. And, if you're as lucky as me, a regular person who handles sound. Bill got paid the same as us, went wherever we went, whether or not there was "house sound." A major contributor to our success in the first couple years. He made sure room volume was never an issue.

He managed to put a volume knob on the acoustic drums?

 

[Pocket Dave]

Consider that from the band’s perspective they’re not going to even going to get into discussing money before you convince them you can do the job. You don’t want to waste your time. But neither do they. (See previous comments in earlier posts about ego. )

FWIW, I never once ran into anyone who put the money question up front and didn’t turn out to be a major PITA down the road. Nobody admires a mercenary - or hires one if there’s an alternative. Just sayin’

I've read this response multiple times and have been on the fence about replying.

Have you considered your definition of "major PITA" might just be someone who doesn't share your same values?

I put earnings, no matter how great or little, ahead of someone's ideals for band management, no matter how realistic or not.

If that makes me a mercenary, yeah, I'm good with that.

If so, I disagree 100% with "Nobody admires a mercenary - or hires one if there’s an alternative." That's not been my experience.

In my little world of local pros, road warriors and semi-pros, the vast majority of us can be called mercenaries if putting pay first is the defining factor as you're saying. Fact is we get hired a lot. Jury may still be out on whether others admire us, but they're apparently willing to put up with our ____ for hours on end, so there's that.

Whether or not we're admired, for the most part we suit up, show up prepared, shut up and get it done. In the eyes of many who hire musicians and do this a lot, there really isn't an alternative.