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Double Bass How to do better walking bass lines

#42
Chris Fitzgerald said:
Be systematic in your approach to practicing with regard to connecting chords in progressions. If you take a simple turnaround with a harmonic rhythm of two chords per bar:

//: C A7b9 / Dm7 G7 ://

Try using all chromatic approach notes from above (C-Bb-A-Eb-D-Ab-G-Db-C), then all chromatic approach notes from below (C-G#-A-C#-D-F#-G-B-C). This gives you two basic ways to approach a simple turnaround. Then if your understanding of the chords and the key allows it, play all upper diatonic approach notes (C-B-A-E-D-A-G-D-C), and lower diatonic approach notes (C-G-A-C#-D-F-G-B-C); noticing that between 40-50% of lower diatonic approach notes will also be chromatic. With just these few tools, you have access to a ton of variation possibilities, which can be thought of as permutations (UC=upper chromatic, LC=lower chromatic, UD=upper diatonic, LD =lower diatonic):
UC UC UC UC
UC LC UC LC
UC UC LC UC
UC UC LC LC
UC UC UC LC
UC LC UC UC
UC LC LC UC
UC LC LC LC

Then begin with the lower chromatics and respin:
LC LC LC LC
etc.

Do the same with the diatonic upper and lower notes. Then mix diatonic and chromatic. Then start systematically mixing in different octaves of the root notes. In this way, you can create a (practically unlimited) variety of slight variations on the same turnaround. While this is a practice technique only and I wouldn't recommend trying to think like this when actually playing lots of players I listen to seem to keep a vague tally of exact turnaround formulas they've already played in a tune and try to play variations in the moment. Lots of players I talk to in educational settings talk about doing this semi consciously while playing longer progressions so that they don't end up repeating their lines exactly on multiple passes through the same set of changes. In the end, great players are playing lines as spontaneous melody, but the technique of creating slight variations on the fly so as not to repeat yourself exactly is a positive step in the right direction toward that goal.
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This is the same approach outlined in Chris Fitzgerald's Youtube videos, which I found to be very well produced. Chirs is obviously a great teacher who takes the mystery out of the art of walking bass lines with a few deft moves of music theory. Thanks for such clarity!

BobbyKeyes
Houston
 
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#44
lsabina said:
Got to disagree with this. Accenting 2 and 4 is the drummer's job, not yours. Chris Tarry did a great demonstration at a workshop once where he showed that the bass has to be equally accented on each beat throughout a line.
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Gotta disagree with this. The ultimate answer, IMO, is that in jazz it's all of the player's job to emphasize 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3 and it's best when the stress is subtle in modern jazz. I find that if I listen to the masters that the bass lines emphasize different notes at different times according to where they are in the tune, what's going on in the melody, and what the other players are doing. That's great if you're a master. If you're a beginner or intermediate jazz player, I would also recommend laying heavy quarter notes with no rhythmic lead-ins, just solid quarter notes, on 2 & 4 because it will help the band swing better if they're also unsure about which beats to stress. As an intermediate player myself, when I played with pros, I never had to worry about the time - it just took care of itself. With many younger drummers, they haven't had much experience with swing time and your stressing 2 & 4 can make a world of difference in that case, IME.

Ultimately, what I mostly disagree with is the idea that the "time is somebody's job" because, IME, it's not. It's EVERYBODY's job.
 
#46
Tom Lane said:
Gotta disagree with this. The ultimate answer, IMO, is that in jazz it's all of the player's job to emphasize 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3 and it's best when the stress is subtle in modern jazz. I find that if I listen to the masters that the bass lines emphasize different notes at different times according to where they are in the tune, what's going on in the melody, and what the other players are doing. That's great if you're a master. If you're a beginner or intermediate jazz player, I would also recommend laying heavy quarter notes with no rhythmic lead-ins, just solid quarter notes, on 2 & 4 because it will help the band swing better if they're also unsure about which beats to stress. As an intermediate player myself, when I played with pros, I never had to worry about the time - it just took care of itself. With many younger drummers, they haven't had much experience with swing time and your stressing 2 & 4 can make a world of difference in that case, IME.

Ultimately, what I mostly disagree with is the idea that the "time is somebody's job" because, IME, it's not. It's EVERYBODY's job.
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Tom,
Just curious - did John Goldsboy or Rufus R. (or any other instructor), ever mention the "emphasizing (of) 2 & 4" in their walking basslines?
Thanks!
 
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#48
Don Kasper said:
Tom,
Just curious - did John Goldsboy or Rufus R. (or any other instructor), ever mention the "emphasizing (of) 2 & 4" in their walking basslines?
Thanks!
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Urt-oh! Back in the principal's office!

But, tempting fate - "Goldsboy"? You mean Sir Obi-won Goldsby?

Now, that you mention it, no, I don't remember Rufus, John, Chris, Lynn, any of the bass faculty commenting on emphasizing 2 & 4. Fred Hamilton, who plays bass quite well, mentioned that we don't want to emphasize 1 & 3 unless you're playing with players who are unsure of the changes. Jim Ketch did strongly suggest that I emphasize 2 & 4 more in my lines and when I listened back to a recording, I heard that there was a measure of FMaj F#o / Gm / where I was emphasizing 1 & 3 and my line didn't swing at all. Almost like a march.

Rufus said VERY clearly, last year, to "just play the tune", which I interpret as "make a coherent musical statement with direction that sounds good and stop over-thinking things" and I think he's said things to that effect 2 or 3 times before. Lynn Seaton recommended that if you're going to play a rhythmic pickup that "you gotta mean it." And David Friesen is always after us to learn to swing quarter notes solidly before adding rhythmic embellishments.

So, what do you tell your students?
 
#53
Tom Lane said:
Don't just leave it there Michael, telling us what you DON'T agree with - finish the thought and tell us what you DO agree with?
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Sure. I'm with Don, 4 even notes. To me, the bass accenting or emphasizing 2 and 4 actually defeats the purpose of what the walking bass line is supposed to do and how it's supposed to feel. Whether the note length is short and percussive like Walter Page, all the way to someone like Mraz whose notes are long and very non-pointed, those 4 notes are connected and equally emphasized. To paraphrase Isabina, 2 and 4 is the drummers job

I'd add that things like upbeats, drops, rakes and all that kind of 'extracurricular' stuff is used to emphasize, highlight or lead into certain parts of the bar, but are utilized in a non systematic way, as opposed to what you were talking about
 
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#56
CW I've always known is that should be all even regardless of the meter (including walking in odd meters). Rules are made to be broken but I don't think you should break this one very often and would only do it for good reason.

Chuck Berghofer sounds hip at this high tempo with the 2&4 accents (about 1:05). I personally would only do it if there's no drummer and I wanted to get that ride cymbal feel. The clip is short but I don't think he sticks with it for very long. It's a nice effect.

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My impression is that emphasizing 2&4 without intention just shows that you're a beginner. It should always be even and it swings harder that way. If someone is getting lost, that's a different problem and I'd be busy knocking out the downbeat, not hitting 2&4. That would only confuse people.
 
#57
Don Kasper said:
When playing "walking" bass, ALWAYS...No Exceptions... (that come to mind). Can you provide a situation that might call for an "exception"?
I'm speaking here of the attack, or front of the note, (and, of course, the length or middle), and the end of the note.
Thanks.
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Michael Karn said:
Sure. I'm with Don, 4 even notes. To me, the bass accenting or emphasizing 2 and 4 actually defeats the purpose of what the walking bass line is supposed to do and how it's supposed to feel. Whether the note length is short and percussive like Walter Page, all the way to someone like Mraz whose notes are long and very non-pointed, those 4 notes are connected and equally emphasized. To paraphrase Isabina, 2 and 4 is the drummers job

I'd add that things like upbeats, drops, rakes and all that kind of 'extracurricular' stuff is used to emphasize, highlight or lead into certain parts of the bar, but are utilized in a non systematic way, as opposed to what you were talking about
Click to expand...

Huy Nguyen said:
CW I've always known is that should be all even regardless of the meter (including walking in odd meters). Rules are made to be broken but I don't think you should break this one very often and would only do it for good reason.

Chuck Berghofer sounds hip at this high tempo with the 2&4 accents (about 1:05). I personally would only do it if there's no drummer and I wanted to get that ride cymbal feel. The clip is short but I don't think he sticks with it for very long. It's a nice effect.

Invalid Link Removed

My impression is that emphasizing 2&4 without intention just shows that you're a beginner. It should always be even and it swings harder that way. If someone is getting lost, that's a different problem and I'd be busy knocking out the downbeat, not hitting 2&4. That would only confuse people.
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I'm glad you guys chimed in because I don't want to pass along misinformation. I'm not sure "as even as possible" is always appropriate but I'm sure you're advice is better than mine.

Do you agree that the emphasis, in general, in jazz is to highlight 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3? But you just feel that it's not the bassist's job to play that emphasis in their lines?
 
#58
Tom Lane said:
I'm glad you guys chimed in because I don't want to pass along misinformation. I'm not sure "as even as possible" is always appropriate but I'm sure you're advice is better than mine.

Do you agree that the emphasis, in general, in jazz is to highlight 2 & 4 rather than 1 & 3? But you just feel that it's not the bassist's job to play that emphasis in their lines?
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Jazz emphasis is on weak beats TRADITIONALLY. teaching 2+4 is a poor way of conveying this to a beginner. Its much deeper than that and since woody Herman wrote woodchoppers ball swing has evolved just a touch.
 
#60
Tom Lane said:
Okay, again, it's easy to say what it isn't, share your wisdom with us by saying what it IS.
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Pardon me. It's even, "bouncy" (wording of a teacher of mine) quarter notes as this pertains to walking.

For soloing 8th note lines it's even volumes notes with chosen accents that are not anywhere in particular but are dictated by the music. Miles' solo on oleo is a great example of accenting all sorts of beats to create a swing feel.

For lack of a better explanation, it's something you have to hear, which goes for the evolution of swing feel as well.
 

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