How to get a tone like Jack Bruce (Cream)

[The Golden Boy]

Yet you also said:



How am I the inconsistent one here?

It's all about context-

What I said was:

Another simple thing- listen to "Hey Now Princess" from the TWTD comp and then from Bruce's 1989 album A Question Of Time- the tone should be the same- same song, same player, same drummer, only 20 years seperating them- should be the same? No. Entirely different bass and rig.

Entirely consistent.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

It's all about context-

What I said was:



Entirely consistent.

Yeah, but you shot down my suggestion that Jack changed in the intervening years much more than his gear. Your response was that that was "horse hockey" because in between he played with Ringo and sounded like the old Jack using his old gear. I said that he may have been going for an old-school sound with Ringo. You later said that even with Ringo he didn't sound like the old Jack.

Entirely inconsistent.

 

[The Golden Boy]

If you go back a little further in the thread, you can see that I said Jack at the reunion did not sound exactly like the younger Cream Jack Bruce. You're arguing with the wrong guy.

You're also seemingly deliberately misinterpreting Jimmy and Pedro. If not deliberate, my apologies.

I'm responding to a reply you made to my post.

I don't think there's a lot of misinterpretation to disagree with:

I'd suggest that most of their tonal differences was due to their evolution as musicians, and only some to the gear.

I'm saying that the way the player plays overrides everything, and I mean everything.

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything- I don't think answering a pretty simple question like "how do I get a good approximation of the Cream era Jack Bruce tone" with "What will get you closest to sounding like Jack Bruce is playing like Jack Bruce" is good form.

Maybe they honestly don't hear the tonal variation between Bruce of 1968 and Bruce of 2005. Maybe they don't hear the tonal similarity between Bruce of 1968 and Fraser of 1970 or Daisley of 1980- if they don't, there's no need to discuss why somone's bass tones are similar or different.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

I don't think you're being a dick. But these guys are representing pretty moderate viewpoints in my view that acknowledge the role gear plays in a player's tone while refusing to pretend there is some magic way to sound like Jack Bruce.

Anyway, I still don't see how you've been consistent (as I elaborated in post #102). No skin off my back, and I'm sure none off yours. I can say for a fact that I sound nothing like JB playing through a similar rig. If you can, it's partially because you can kind of play like him.

 

[The Golden Boy]

Yeah, but you shot down my suggestion that Jack changed in the intervening years much more than his gear. Your response was that that was "horse hockey" because in between he played with Ringo and sounded like the old Jack using his old gear. I said that he may have been going for an old-school sound with Ringo. You later said that even with Ringo he didn't sound like the old Jack.

Entirely inconsistent.

Show me any post in context where I've stated that Bruce has sounded like '1968 Jack Bruce' since he's been using the "new" basses and/or rig.

 

[Gearhead43]

Not even gonna touch this one...

To the OP, take your EB0, put it through a creamy (read: bassy/low mid-y, not mid scooped or extended high end) distortion (be sparing with it though) and into any amp with decent headroom and start practicing your pentatonic blues scales.

End of discussion.

Thanks, that's exactly what I have been doing and it sounds good. I also immediately put flats on it.

Like I said, not trying to sound exactly like JB, just want a little sonic influence for some songs.

My "hands" work just fine.

There's also something cool about this bass that is different from alot of other basses I have had, like P-basses.

This thing is WAY more resonant "acoustically" than most, you can practice unplugged with it and hear it damn loud. It does get into the amped sound too in the woody / low-middy way it sounds. Maybe because the pickup is a little microphonic also. I dig this little cheapo bass.

Also, if you guys feel like staying on topic - I could give a rat's @rse about anything Jack has done since Cream. I was only interested in the classic sound he had with the EB-3, playing with Cream. The good stuff, not the new stuff. I think it has been covered, thanks.

Anyway, quit bitching at each other. It's stupid. Oh wait...I forgot this is Talkbass. Carry on.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

If'n I remember right, Bruce did the All Starr band in 98... which would make for 30 years between those shows and the Farewell concert. But he sounded just like he did 30 years ago, but won't when it was only 20 years ago? Or how about the reunion shows- that was almost 40 years, but he sounded the same then? But not 20 years ago?

I didn't say you said he sounded the same with new gear. I don't know what gear he used with Ringo, but this post here represents a confusing viewpoint. You were the one to bring up the Ringo shows.

What exactly were you saying here?

 

[Sneckumhaw]

Anyway, quit bitching at each other. It's stupid. Oh wait...I forgot this is Talkbass. Carry on.

Words of wisdom, you make the rest of us look like the dinks we are.

 

[The Golden Boy]

I don't think you're being a dick. But these guys are representing pretty moderate viewpoints in my view that acknowledge the role gear plays in a player's tone while refusing to pretend there is some magic way to sound like Jack Bruce.

Anyway, I still don't see how you've been consistent (as I elaborated in post #102). No skin off my back, and I'm sure none off yours. I can say for a fact that I sound nothing like JB playing through a similar rig. If you can, it's partially because you can kind of play like him.

I play nothing like Bruce- he was a huge influence on me when I was learning to play, and as I developed my "style" I moved away from a lot of the things Bruce did, but still love the way he approached certain things.

My contention is that a bass with as much of a "signature" sound, such as an EB series bass coupled with an overdriven tube amp through a sealed 4x12 cab with 25w speakers and the mids cranked is going to have a characteristic sound, no matter who is playing it. That says nothing about the gear magically making the playing better, just that (especially) the gear in question is going to produce a pretty narrow field of tones.

I spent 20 years trying to figure out a way to get my EB-0 to sound like a P. I couldn't and I hated it for that, however once I learned to embrace what the bass actually is able to do rather than what I wanted it to do- I really kind of like what it does.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

I play nothing like Bruce- he was a huge influence on me when I was learning to play, and as I developed my "style" I moved away from a lot of the things Bruce did, but still love the way he approached certain things.

My contention is that a bass with as much of a "signature" sound, such as an EB series bass coupled with an overdriven tube amp through a sealed 4x12 cab with 25w speakers and the mids cranked is going to have a characteristic sound, no matter who is playing it. That says nothing about the gear magically making the playing better, just that (especially) the gear in question is going to produce a pretty narrow field of tones.

I spent 20 years trying to figure out a way to get my EB-0 to sound like a P. I couldn't and I hated it for that, however once I learned to embrace what the bass actually is able to do rather than what I wanted it to do- I really kind of like what it does.

I don't find a word of this unreasonable, and I doubt Jimmy and Pedro would either. If they do, then and only then will I accept that they are being unreasonable in their viewpoints. Nothing in the thread so far has suggested that.

 

[The Golden Boy]

I didn't say you said he sounded the same with new gear. I don't know what gear he used with Ringo, but this post here represents a confusing viewpoint. You were the one to bring up the Ringo shows.

What exactly were you saying here?

Check out post #3-

On the Ringo Starr clip of him playing Sunshine Of Your Love with Peter Frampton, he played a fretless Warwick into a stack of Hartkes and he sounded like Jack Bruce. So rather than looking to equipment, you're better served looking to how he plays the bass itself.

So what I was saying is- He didn't have the 1968 Cream tone in 1989, he didn't have that tone in 1993, he didn't have that tone in 1998, and didn't have that tone in 2005.

 

[The Golden Boy]

I don't find a word of this unreasonable, and I doubt Jimmy and Pedro would either. If they do, then and only then will I accept that they are being unreasonable in their viewpoints. Nothing in the thread so far has suggested that.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6670324&postcount=35

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6670354&postcount=37

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6670369&postcount=39

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6695049&postcount=73 in reference to: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6694986&postcount=72

 

[KPAX]

No, I wasn't doubting it. I just didn't know he used an EB3 for Crazy Train but yeah, there it is. It certainly sounds like an EB3 so I'm not surprised. He's playing a Brucey line and he's using a Brucey (Cream/WB&L) rig.

Sure did!!!

Invalid Link Removed

KNAC.COM: To my ear, you can tell that the same individuals were involved in the recording of the discs, but sonically there is something different between the two -- did you use a different studios for each session?
DAISLEY: Well, for a start, Randy had some different guitars for the second album than on the first one and I used a different bass and a different amp on the second one. On the first one I used a Gibson EB3 through a Marshall head which was one of Randy’s 100 Watt guitar heads and a 4x12 cabinet whereas on the second one I used my 61 Fender “P” bass through an SVT with an 8x10 Ampeg and that would give it a different sound for a start.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

Check out post #3-



So what I was saying is- He didn't have the 1968 Cream tone in 1989, he didn't have that tone in 1993, he didn't have that tone in 1998, and didn't have that tone in 2005.

OK, your post was moderately to extremely confusing, now that we've cleared that up, I respect your viewpoint. Good enough.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

Sorry TGB, those guys haven't denied that Bruce's Cream rig sounds like itself.

Jimmy even said that Jack playing a P through [I forget what rig, tired of quoting] would sound like Jack playing a P through [I forget what rig, tired of quoting].

That simple, you just have different priorities as to what element has the greatet effect on a player's sound. Sounds reasonable enough to me, this is supposed to be a discussion board after all.

 

[pedro]

I mean this as an honest question- I know different people "hear" different things- but do the YouTube clips of Sunshine of Your Love in 1968, 1993 and 2005 sound the same to you? Is the bass sound the same to you?

No. What I'm saying is that the differences one hears are more attributable to his evolution as a musician than to a choice of gear. FWIW, Jack never wanted the sound you hear in the 1966-1968 recordings (although I did). That was quite accidental and in fact by the time he did his recordings with Zappa he had moved on sonically. The story is that when he arrived to do 'Apostrophe' Zappa said he wanted the old sound and Bruce when and had his gear modified to accomodate Zappa's desire.

As I've said on a couple of occassions already, its not that the gear doesn't make 'any' difference, its just that I believe a musician of Bruce's talents could dial in his desired tone with pretty much any quality gear, in much the same way, as Duck, Babbitt did when I saw them (also Jaco).

 

[pedro]

I'm responding to a reply you made to my post.

I don't think there's a lot of misinterpretation to disagree with:







I'm not trying to be a dick or anything- I don't think answering a pretty simple question like "how do I get a good approximation of the Cream era Jack Bruce tone" with "What will get you closest to sounding like Jack Bruce is playing like Jack Bruce" is good form.

Maybe they honestly don't hear the tonal variation between Bruce of 1968 and Bruce of 2005. Maybe they don't hear the tonal similarity between Bruce of 1968 and Fraser of 1970 or Daisley of 1980- if they don't, there's no need to discuss why somone's bass tones are similar or different.

I don't think you're being a dick. But you don't seem to be able to acknowledge at least the possibility the 'tone' is at least a combination of the musician as well as gear. I'm pretty sure that if Edgar Meyer and Charles Mingus switched basses they would still sound like Meyer and Mingus.

 

[JimmyM]

I don't think you're being a dick. But you don't seem to be able to acknowledge at least the possibility the 'tone' is at least a combination of the musician as well as gear. I'm pretty sure that if Edgar Meyer and Charles Mingus switched basses they would still sound like Meyer and Mingus.

And that's been my point all along. Equipment alone will not get it. Maybe some of you are OK taking the responsibility of your tone away from you and putting it onto the gear. I am not. I definitely have favorites for gear, but I take 100% personal responsibility for my tone. If any of you played my rig, you wouldn't sound like me, and vice versa.

 

[jerry]

I spent 20 years trying to figure out a way to get my EB-0 to sound like a P. I couldn't and I hated it for that, however once I learned to embrace what the bass actually is able to do rather than what I wanted it to do- I really kind of like what it does.

LOL, I was the other way. In the early 70's two of my biggest influences were Bruce & Fraser, I was trying to make my P-bass sound like a EB, even put a humbucker in it.

 

[Sneckumhaw]

No. What I'm saying is that the differences one hears are more attributable to his evolution as a musician than to a choice of gear. FWIW, Jack never wanted the sound you hear in the 1966-1968 recordings (although I did). That was quite accidental and in fact by the time he did his recordings with Zappa he had moved on sonically. The story is that when he arrived to do 'Apostrophe' Zappa said he wanted the old sound and Bruce when and had his gear modified to accomodate Zappa's desire.

As I've said on a couple of occassions already, its not that the gear doesn't make 'any' difference, its just that I believe a musician of Bruce's talents could dial in his desired tone with pretty much any quality gear, in much the same way, as Duck, Babbitt did when I saw them (also Jaco).

Exactly my viewpoint as well, perhaps best articulated by Pedro in this post.