How to internalize the Clave???

[thewildest]

+1 to listening to the whole and understanding how the chaos of individual instruments melt into one groove. Once you catch the sense, you won’t need to count... it will logically come to you.

Playing the clave, or understanding the parts brought by other instruments (piano, percussion, winds) will also help you a lot, as it will provide you with “pickup points” from where to synch your groove if you lose it at some point.

Listening to the style, always helps. To study, I’d rather find a simpler setup (not a multi-instrument-Tito-Puente band) but instead a 2-3 instrument set, something from Bebo Valdes, just pure magic in small bites, easy to listen and great to learn

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

Being as the clave is not only an instrument but also a rhythmic pattern, play with the pattern for a while in some different contexts and then move back to the style you are working with.

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

oh man, that happened to me many years ago...a local Cubano band desperately needed a bass player...so desperate they were they contacted me!
they gave me about a dozen songs to review before the ONE rehearsal for the gig.

I showed up with my plywood bass and crappy pickup, and when the piano guy started, I was right there for about 30 seconds, then when the percussion and horns came in, I was gone. They all looked at me for another 30 seconds, then they stopped.

Piano guy told the other guys to take 5. Sat there and told me to follow his left hand until I could operate independently. That was the only way I made it through those gigs. Watching his left hand. But that was not how he usually played. I felt like the weakest link so I had to bow out gracefully, because really, I did not have the time to commit to being the bassist they needed. It was a very humbling experience.

 

[groooooove]

I'm nearly positive the only way to "get" playing authentic latin music is by ruining someone else's rehearsal at least once - you we all bomb the first time!!

now that you did, you know what work you have cut out for you. This is one scenario where i did not find playing along with recordings helpful at all. I would sit for long practice sessions and just feel - on one chord - the pulse, and play the groove. be sure to never play on a downbeat and you'll be better off than the average player.

there are nuances to each feel, which can also drive you crazy at first.

Start slow, feel the tempo, play the groove. SLOWLY get faster! then apply it to tunes.

it's a long road. its a totally different type of music. I had an easier time transitioning from being a rock bass guitarist into playing in symphony orchestras than I did being a jazz musician transitioning into playing latin music.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

You have to be indepant rythmically

Feel the metronome pulse and stick to it

 

[bherman]

Another vote for the Stagnaro Latin Bass Book. Comes with CDs; I transferred them to Amazing Slow Downer on my iPhone, started out playing them at 1/2 speed until I get the hang of it.

 

[bass12]

I'm not any authority on the subject but I have listened to quite a bit of Afro-Cuban music and have done some Afro-Cuban study on congas and bongos. Some very good advice on here already. First, there's no substitute for listening. Listen to as much Afro-Cuban stuff as you can. One of the tricky things is knowing what's what style-wise. It's easy for a lot of different styles to sound the same to musical outsiders. Perhaps some of the books suggested will help with that. Something that helped me better digest Afro-Cuban music was learning various percussion parts (congas, bongos, timbales, cowbell). A good book to help with that is Ed Uribe's "The Essence Of Afro-Cuban Percussion and Drum Set".

 

[IamGroot]

I guess counting is good when you are starting out, but it is really important to FEEL the clave. Cuz when you are whipping along at 220 bpm and the bass is hitting the 4& instead if the one, bad things could happen if you get lost.

Learning clave actually just a subset of knowing where every 8th note in a bar lays and playing it without counting. I call this "sharpshooting 8ths". Takes a bit of practice to master this but it will help your groove immensely.

Jamerson took it to the next level with 16ths.

 

[ErikP.Bass]

What a great thread! I’m glad to have found it. I don’t have any advice to offer apart from some of the things that were already mentioned (move your body, focus on the clave only, Stagnaro etc.) but I have really appreciated the input so far and will be keeping my eye in this thread.

This site has a lot of good information on the style and jazz in general.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Omega Monkey]

Are you brand new to this kind of music? At least for basic stuff, I find the rhythms pretty intuitive even with only just the basic familiarity I have with this stuff from hearing it "in the background" for a long time. If you're trying to read it before you really understand how to translate the page into sound, I feel like that's where most of the problem lies. And if you're not trying to be a session guy in Little Havana by next week, the reading can probably wait. Because playing without reading is fine if you play the right thing, but reading without playing is kind of worthless.

But just from hearing it once just now, I've got Sabor in my head already. Because it's just the same pattern you hear in a jillion other songs. And by the way I'm a white dude who grew up in the middle of NY state, and never put much effort into learning this stuff, so whatever I have is just from absorption over time, which is frankly one of the best ways to start learning anything to begin with (as long as you don't end up with too many unbreakable bad habits). I think some of the counting/clapping/singing exercises people have brought up are probably the way to go, and also just listen to a metric crap ton. It sounds like your theoretical understanding of music overall is relatively good, so the biggest way to work on getting the feel to that same level is listening/practice/familiarity. Because eventually you need to leave the brain behind and just play for it to sound right.

Just be glad you're not the piano player!

 

[Roxbororob]

Good stuff Subbed.
Thx for the thread phillipkregg and hope your next rehersal goes better (I know the feeling).

 

[phillipkregg]

Good stuff Subbed.
Thx for the thread phillipkregg and hope your next rehersal goes better (I know the feeling).

Thanks! If it doesn't it won't be for lack of trying

I've already learned a lot about how to approach this from the awesome folks contributing here.

 

[Bertr]

Having played in a Salsa band for quite a while (coming from Rock) I know your pain...
What help me was to actually sing the bass lines and focus on the 2 Columbian ladies singing. That way I would not think 'Rock'.
I kept it as simple as possible, short notes.
After a while I managed to get in tune with the groove.
That being said, since I do not read music so well, It has happened to me to program a drum machine to get an idea of what was written for a new song where the bass was not clear on the recording.

 

[Ekulati]

I had to "feel" it. It seems like the "1" was somewhere between the and-of-4 and the actual 1.

So I can count it and I can (sometimes) play it correctly but not both at the same time.

Right. I'm sure the above resources are great, but for my money, I don't try to count it. Definitely feel it.

One tip that helped me back in the 80s when I started playing Latin was when I realized that the only actual downbeat I might play in a tune is the first one. After that, all offbeats.

Probably an oversimplification but it helped me at first.

 

[eJake]

You simply haven't internalized the rhythms yet. You need to spend time on just that.

Try this prescription:

1.) put the bass down, and forget about pitches and harmony for now. Focus on rhythms alone.

2.) count vocally " 1 2 3 4" while clapping the clave.

If that's too hard:
slow down more
isolate the 2 side while vocalizing 4/4
isolate the 3 side while vocalizing 4/4​

keep at it until you can reliably execute this​

3.) Once you can vocalize 4/4 while clapping the clave, switch:
vocalize the clave while clapping 4/4, slowing down as much as needed

4.) count vocally " 1 2 3 4" while clapping the bass tumbao pattern

5.) Once you can vocalize 4/4 while clapping bass tumbao pattern, switch:
vocalize the bass tumbao while clapping 4/4

6.) Now, combine the two: Vocalize bass tumbao pattern while clapping the clave

7.) Vocalize the clave while clapping the bass tumbao rhtyhm

The great thing about vocalizing /clapping is that you can practice at any time, anywhere.
I literally taught myself the bass tumbao while waiting for the bus.


Other things that help greatly:
- learn to read rhythm notation. Notation has precision that our rhythmic awareness may lack.
- learn to play other percussion / rhythm section parts, especially the conga pattern. All the parts interlock, the more you learn the more cues you have.

I play a ton of salsa. I was going to say all of this and now don't have to. Great advice here.

 

[ak56]

How to Dance Salsa, Learning how to listen the Clave

 

[eJake]

Right. I'm sure the above resources are great, but for my money, I don't try to count it. Definitely feel it.

One tip that helped me back in the 80s when I started playing Latin was when I realized that the only actual downbeat I might play in a tune is the first one. After that, all offbeats.

Probably an oversimplification but it helped me at first.

This is a common misconception. There are downbeats all over salsa music depending on the section. Go listen to one of the most iconic salsa tunes Pedro Navaja by Ruben Blades. There are down beats all over the place.

 

[chaosMK]

You need to work on your sabor, good luck man!

 

[AMp'D.2play]

I have the Oscar Stagnaro book, and it's a great resource. The Lincoln Goines "Funkifying the Clave" video is also helpful.

As for another - albeit lengthy - video, check out Dance Papi:

 

[Groove Master]

That's pretty much it. Counting does me absolutely no good so far.

The instructor had me stop playing and just find where the 1 is and count. That was no problem, but the bass part doesn't come in on the one. In fact, I couldn't actually count where it came in at, I had to "feel" it. It seems like the "1" was somewhere between the and-of-4 and the actual 1.

So I can count it and I can (sometimes) play it correctly but not both at the same time.

That is because there are no downbeats in the salsa for the bass. You have to get that 4th beat ( or the up of 4 if you count in cut-time) being the beginning of your pattern. Once you feel confortable with that the rest should follow.
Keep listening and tap the pulse without your bass on those tunes you posted. Try all the beats then in cut-time (1&3) and then 2&4 (my favorite). Finish with the clave. I think that is the best way to internalize the groove and you don't need your bass for that.