How to not suck as a band?

[BassMaster4s]

The tighter a band is, the better they sound. It really is that simple. That all starts with a solid drummer, and extends to the other rhythm instruments in the band, primarily the bass. Everything else the band does, from a simple solo, to blistering riffs will sound only as good as the backbone supporting it.

Also, think in terms of the band being a team, not as yourself as a star player. This mentality can make a band much more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Phalex]

Also, think in terms of the band being a team, not as yourself as a star player. This mentality can make a band much more than the sum of its parts.

+1000!!

This should be a sticky!

 

[Paul M]

Also, don't hire this guy:

 

[ridgeback]

Immature people often get bigger-than-deserved egos. Any minor success, such as getting 12-15 friends to tell them that they're "awesome, dude!" just feeds that & makes it worse.

Another issue is that the ability to really listen to music is a skill that most people need to work at & develop. Many younger players tend to isolate one instrument in their minds (usually their favorite) & think that as long as that one riff is "nailed" all is great. They completely miss the critical interrelationships of instruments needed to produce a good, overall band experience.

Short answer: Grow up! (easier said than done!)

First, lose the "I know what's 'good'" attitude. I'm not trying to imply that you (OP) or anyone in particular has that attitude, but a lot of "kids" (I was one once, for way too long; I know at least a little about what it's like) think they know everything (and/or will live forever, are bulletproof, etc.). That's understandable, considering that anybody in their late teens to early 20s especially has just gone through a major life-phase-shift & really has learned a heck of a lot in a pretty short period of time. What they may not realize, though, is that it's (the learning process) a long way from being over.

You may be "good", or even "great", at playing your instrument. You may have the greatest taste in music & "know" more about what's "good" & not than anybody else in the world. None of that matters if you have any interest at all in appealing to more than just yourself. The only opinions that matter are those of the audience, and you have to truly care about them if you want them to care about you.

Simple formula:

1. It's not about you (the musicians)
2. It's not even about the music
3. It's all about them; the audience/listeners

Some people figure this out a young age, while others never get it in their whole lives. I just jammed last week with a 50-something guitar player who couldn't seem to shut up about how awful just about every other local musician is (when he wasn't droning on about his own awesome talent & skill, dropping big names that he knows, etc.). The guy was an OK player, but certainly nowhere near "God's gift to the guitar" like he seemed to believe.

I think that the smartest thing a young person can do is to figure out exactly what they want to do, then work up a plan to make that happen. I really admire those who, at a young age, figured out what they wanted their lives to be & got it done - even if "all" they wanted was a good job, family, fishing on weekends, comfortable retirement, etc.

that is everything more or less..spot on..one think i hate more than anything with musicians is bitching..its a very small world and while you might think your gods gift to music there is always somebody better..share the wealth and learn as you go.the thing is you can never stop getting improving,its always handy to get to know other bands or players even if your out for the same jobs..go support them and just give credit it will stand to you as a player long term..its nice to be nice..

 

[MatticusMania]

I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?

2) How does one avoid this problem?

1) There are WAY too many variables to pinpoint this to one answer. Its most likely a combination of many of the following: Unprofessionalism, No drive, Big Dreams, Little effort, Lack of Talent, Lack of Skill, Big Egos, Self Entitlement, etc.

2) The only way to avoid it is to find the right people to play with and work toward a common goal. Believe it or not, but it can be done.

 

[kevingr]

There is a lot of great of advice in this thread I would particularly look at what has been said ego and a certain amount of naivety.

On the hand it is not necessarily a bad thing. When I was a teenager and my friends and I were creating bands and writing songs we thought we were great and our friends told us we were great when in reality we sucked. But here is the important bit, because we thought we were great we carried on doing it until we really did become quite good. That ego and false boosting of it gave us the encouragement to keep playing and keep practicing.

 

[MatticusMania]

That's also why I despise those Disney, bubblegum, saccharine, every-hair-in-place wide-eyed popstarturds. You need to show your scars and they don't have any.

Well now, you don't know that for certain. I guarantee you that Miley Cyrus has some scars, and she's itching to show them, but she's under contract not to (for now).

But here is the important bit, because we thought we were great we carried on doing it until we really did become quite good.

I like that. It definitely rings true for me. I cringe when I listen to anything I wrote with my first band, but Im glad I have it to listen to, if for nothing else but a mark of my personal improvement. Its also nice to listen back and see that, even 8 years ago when I was a noob, I was still striving to do something different. Thats something I hope to never lose.

 

[Beginner Bass]

I feel they lack openness, honesty, candor and attitude. You have to have something to say if you're gonna be an artist-artist, and you're gonna have to be brutally open about it.

Most of those highschoolbands I feel are satisfied with a few cool riffs and some lyrics about having a beer or whathaveyou. Those aren't really gripping stories, you have to be grabbed by the balls by something. That's why the greatest artists IMO have something wrong with them. They're ******** who did some crazy stuff, or they're slightly sociopathic, or they've been hurt or traumatized, or otherwise had a long and interesting life. See Dylan, Cash, Reznor, Lemmy, and so on.

That's also why I despise those Disney, bubblegum, saccharine, every-hair-in-place wide-eyed popstarturds. You need to show your scars and they don't have any.

They usually only play what they want to play, and what they consider the best, and what they consider incredibly difficult, etc., while forgetting about what the audience came to hear.

Also, this should be a sticky.

 

[LotusCarsLtd52]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I want to add some more detail if it helps:

1) As of right now the band seems to be taking-on a flavor like that of Dinosaur Jr., Mission of Burma, etc. The "classic" alt-rock heros of the '80's. Which is fine and all and I enjoy playing it, but since we're still in the brainstorming/getting-familiar-with-playing-as-a-band phase we haven't yet recorded anything so there's no way for me to accurately discern if our music is an original offshoot of these influences or too close of a copy. Some of the best stuff we've done, I think, are random experimental/proggy improvisations. I'd like to use this style more and the rest of the band seems cool with it. We just agreed we need to make more of an effort to do so in the future. My drummer and I are starting to get into minimalism and La Monte Young and I'd love to add that in there somewhere.

2) I used to play clarinet and plan on getting back into it again. And I definitely want to add that to the mix so that should be interesting.

3) Given that experimental music is definitely something we're interested in how do we go about making coherent experimental music? The stuff we've done so far is great IMO but the songs end-up being 30-40 minutes long when we're done...and most audiences, we realize, won't want to wait around that long.

4) As for the scars/emotions, I have plenty of those. Probably why my songs are mellow and somewhat dark. Works for me! As long as I don't end-up overly moody like Staind...that's taking it way too far...

 

[aborgman]

I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?

They so want to be "original" that they never bother to do the background work of learning how to play a strong repertoire of classic works, or studying those classic works to glean songwriting lessons from them.

They think that doing other folks music will taint their originality, whereas it will actually help them develop the skills necessary to actually make good music.

2) How does one avoid this problem?

Listen to and play everything.

 

[Matt Dean]

You live or die by the drummer in any band. Get yourself a good one, and you're half way home.

I agree... then the bass player. If drums and bass rock the band rocks.

Also, practice your beginnings and endings. If those are tight, your audience will think you're pro.

 

[jaywa]

Good bands understand that it's OK for not everyone in the band to be playing all the time. You're not getting paid by the note, so ease off and let things breathe.

Layering, dynamics and "space" are so critical. Many bands play for years and never get this. The ones who do -- even if they are only marginally talented -- have a much easier time connecting with audiences then a band full of technical wizards who never know when to shut up, individually or collectively.

And yeah, you've got to have a good drummer. Until that happens, nothing else really can.

 

[omnimutant]

"Time *ISN'T* just the drummer's or bassist's duty, either. It's up to EVERYONE."

Just quoting again to stress importance! This is so huge it's not even funny. Lead guitarists often think they are exempt from this rule...they are not by any stretch!

That and the Staying motivated. It's not always going to be fun. Many times it's going to feel like more work then it's worth. But if it pans out, it'll be worth it in the end. Nothing like being on stage at the end of a great set and hearing a positive response from the crowd. That's when you know you did it right.

 

[MNAirHead]

focus on visuals

master sales

work on vocals.

 

[mambo4]

Lots of good stuff here!
+1 to space, dynamics, making room for every instrument, getting a good drummer, and working on vocals....

Some of the best stuff we've done, I think, are random experimental/proggy improvisations....? The stuff we've done so far is great IMO but the songs end-up being 30-40 minutes long when we're done...and most audiences, we realize, won't want to wait around that long.

But for an over-arching idea, I strongly agree that It's not about you, but about the audience.
KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE AS A BAND.

I think you may want to clarify what "Not sucking" really means to you...
-does it mean YOU are satisfied with the music you are making?
-or does it mean the AUDIENCE likes it ...and keeps coming to your shows? does it mean playing gigs, getting paid, gaining fans, selling merch and recordings?

These are not mutually exclusive, of course, but focusing on one or the other will get you different results.
Prog is a rather small niche in terms of audience and opportunity for pragmatic success
-which may be just fine for you and your band.

If even if you claim personal artistic satisfaction as your main goal,
nothing keeps up your motivation like the payoff of pleased audience.

KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE...
The point of this is to develop an awareness of your desired audience: Knowing WHO you aim to please gives you something to aim for,
and helps in objectively deciding what musical ideas to keep, develop, or toss out.

I'd like to use this style more and the rest of the band seems cool with it.

...AS A BAND.
The final point would be that everyone has to buy in on the same musical vision, or at least be cool with what the band as a whole is doing. Sure there's room for everyone's influences ideas, but when YOU want prog more than others are "comfortable" with....well, time to have a discussion and see if everybody can at least agree on a direction...and a target audience.

Such concerns often strike young bands as "marketing speak" (which it is) and they tend to balk at it for fear of "selling out". But if you aren't thinking about the audience, selling out will probably NEVER be real a problem

 

[sarcastro83]

Just have fun with it... the rest of it becomes pretty inconsequential...

 

[Phe]

Oh yeah, recording yourself really helps!
I think sense of style (or good taste or attention to the details or how do I put this?) is more important than skills. Of course basic skills are required in most cases, but creativity, healthy dose of self-criticism and sense of style come first. Most all-star bands suck. Sure, they play well but the compositions are lacking. Pay a lot of attention to arrangements. And once again; be on the same page with the rest of the band. Make sure everybody is. Take risks and play as much as you can. And remember to have fun.

 

[MatticusMania]

3) Given that experimental music is definitely something we're interested in how do we go about making coherent experimental music? The stuff we've done so far is great IMO but the songs end-up being 30-40 minutes long when we're done...and most audiences, we realize, won't want to wait around that long.

I can only offer some input on this point.

I play in an experimental improv rock band. My old band was a 2-piece, experimental bass and drum rock outfit. Whenever youre doing something 'experimental' be warned that that word will immediately throw off at least half of the mainstream audiences attention. A lot of people don't like original bands because they want to see something familiar. IME, playing a familiar style of music will hold interest much better than something 'experimental'.

To better hold our audience I no longer use the wors 'experimental' I just tell them we're LA's #1 Improv Rock Band.

As for song length. Take note of each other as youre playing/writing. Its all about visual cues. THE NOD is what you'll want to being your songs to a close. Once they even begin to feel like theyre dragging on, give THE NOD.

Another note on 'experimental' music: If you didnt get this out of the above paragraph, most 'experimental' music is done for the enjoyment of the band, there isnt too large of a market for it, but when you do turn heads, and you will, they'll often love you for it.

As always, YMMV.

 

[kcole4001]

I'm certainly no expert, but one key factor already mentioned is variety.
Tightness is essential, but variety is key for any real longevity.

There is a local originals only band who is very tight, creative, and has a very energetic show, but every song sounds much the same.
Once I've heard '30 minute jam in A' umpteen times, I really prefer to go out for a smoke rather than hear it again (and I don't smoke!).
Great band, no variety at all.

And it's not necessary to have a wide variety of styles of music, this may be alienating to some audience mambers, but at least a variety of sounds during a set spikes the interest level quite easily. Try not to use the same tones for every song.

It also keeps things fresh for the band, but really shows the audience that you can shift gears and be versatile.

They may not think of it in such specific terms as we do, but they do notice these things.
Even just mixing up the order of songs in a set or swaping them in and out of different sets keeps people from thinking they're seeing the same show you put on last time they saw you.
It shows that you put a little effort into the presentation, rather than just plowing through the same old, same old.

 

[TheVoiceless]

I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?

2) How does one avoid this problem?

Well the answer to #1 is lack of dedication and closed minds. At those ages you think you know everything and buy into the old cliche's. Like playing bass with a pick makes you suck, etc. And most of the time one kid in the group might practice his butt off and the rest are just their for the booze and chicks.

The answer too #2 is PRACTICE!! Become great at your instrument. Then you need to either go to music school or to a major city. Why you ask???? Because that is where you will find the talent and dedication needed to become successful. A lot of the great bands were formed at music schools, or in big city's where people go to "make it".