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How to not suck as a band?

L

LotusCarsLtd52

Dec 6, 2009
398
1
#1
I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?

2) How does one avoid this problem?
 
#2
LotusCarsLtd52 said:
I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?
Click to expand...

Lack of skill and originality.

2) How does one avoid this problem?
Click to expand...

Get some skill and originality, and surround yourself with players who have skill and originality.
 
#3
Question #2...

Listen to and study many different genres of music. Don't be one dimensional. I'm in a metal band but I listen to funk,jazz,classical and even showtunes. It's helped our creativity immensely.
 
#4
In a lot of ways, these are open-ended questions. The answers are kinda boundless. And I'm not making a living off my bass playing, so you can take this with a grain of salt, if you like.

But IMO, the key thing that makes a great band is silence. When everybody is leaving room (sonically and rhythmically) for everything else going on, good things happen.

Usually space requires 2 things: 1) good time, 2) good listening.

You don't have to be a virtuoso whiz-bang musician to make good, listenable, fun music that people want to hear. You DO have to be solid and consistent on your timing and you have to listen intently to each other to make room. The result is often referred to as "tight", "groove", and "feel". "Play the spaces", as they say.

Once you have that little issue down, you can be as harmonically simple or as complex as you want to be and people will still enjoy it and hopefully pay to hear it. Of course, you have to expand your musical horizon, as well. But it goes nowhere if you've all got bad time. Time *ISN'T* just the drummer's or bassist's duty, either. It's up to EVERYONE.

I know it's not quite that simplistic, but that's a good start.
 
#7
I guess I already do a lot of that and it seems my friends do to. They listen to mostly rock but explore other genres all the time. I particularly like jazz but I'm likely going to do noise rock/garage rock. Maybe experimental.

And I do choir too so that adds a strange dimension to this all. Still wondering how that influences me.
 
#8
I'd say motivation. Motivation to practice, to do stuff that is required to make the band work. Play as much as you can as a band. And make sure you are all on the same page what the band is about. Make plans and try to achieve them. Don't be disappointed if those plans fail.

I would guess the choir thing affects your sense of harmony and probably your ear. Assuming you're not the one the choir leader is always yelling to :p
 
#9
ego..........players that think they are better than everyone .bad mouthing other bands/players..music is fun and should remain so,lets face it there are bands that are not that skillfull but still selling millions..want to be different be respectfull to other bands musicians..dont **** on your own doorstep because who knows you may be playing with some of these people down the road
 
#11
lowfreqgeek said:
In a lot of ways, these are open-ended questions. The answers are kinda boundless. And I'm not making a living off my bass playing, so you can take this with a grain of salt, if you like.

But IMO, the key thing that makes a great band is silence. When everybody is leaving room (sonically and rhythmically) for everything else going on, good things happen.

Usually space requires 2 things: 1) good time, 2) good listening.

You don't have to be a virtuoso whiz-bang musician to make good, listenable, fun music that people want to hear. You DO have to be solid and consistent on your timing and you have to listen intently to each other to make room. The result is often referred to as "tight", "groove", and "feel". "Play the spaces", as they say.

Once you have that little issue down, you can be as harmonically simple or as complex as you want to be and people will still enjoy it and hopefully pay to hear it. Of course, you have to expand your musical horizon, as well. But it goes nowhere if you've all got bad time. Time *ISN'T* just the drummer's or bassist's duty, either. It's up to EVERYONE.

I know it's not quite that simplistic, but that's a good start.
Click to expand...

Good post and good points, especially "Time *ISN'T* just the drummer's or bassist's duty, either. It's up to EVERYONE."
 
#12
Good timing goes a long way, as well as being "groove focused". Sounding tight goes way beyond complex riffs, and blazing solos. None of these are possible without a good backbone to a song. Start with a good drummer and focus on timing, the rest will all go like clockwork. Originality comes from everyone throwing thier own influences into the mix.
 
#13
LotusCarsLtd52 said:
I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?
Click to expand...
Immature people often get bigger-than-deserved egos. Any minor success, such as getting 12-15 friends to tell them that they're "awesome, dude!" just feeds that & makes it worse.

Another issue is that the ability to really listen to music is a skill that most people need to work at & develop. Many younger players tend to isolate one instrument in their minds (usually their favorite) & think that as long as that one riff is "nailed" all is great. They completely miss the critical interrelationships of instruments needed to produce a good, overall band experience.
2) How does one avoid this problem?
Click to expand...
Short answer: Grow up! (easier said than done!)

First, lose the "I know what's 'good'" attitude. I'm not trying to imply that you (OP) or anyone in particular has that attitude, but a lot of "kids" (I was one once, for way too long; I know at least a little about what it's like) think they know everything (and/or will live forever, are bulletproof, etc.). That's understandable, considering that anybody in their late teens to early 20s especially has just gone through a major life-phase-shift & really has learned a heck of a lot in a pretty short period of time. What they may not realize, though, is that it's (the learning process) a long way from being over.

You may be "good", or even "great", at playing your instrument. You may have the greatest taste in music & "know" more about what's "good" & not than anybody else in the world. None of that matters if you have any interest at all in appealing to more than just yourself. The only opinions that matter are those of the audience, and you have to truly care about them if you want them to care about you.

Simple formula:

1. It's not about you (the musicians)
2. It's not even about the music
3. It's all about them; the audience/listeners

Some people figure this out a young age, while others never get it in their whole lives. I just jammed last week with a 50-something guitar player who couldn't seem to shut up about how awful just about every other local musician is (when he wasn't droning on about his own awesome talent & skill, dropping big names that he knows, etc.). The guy was an OK player, but certainly nowhere near "God's gift to the guitar" like he seemed to believe.

I think that the smartest thing a young person can do is to figure out exactly what they want to do, then work up a plan to make that happen. I really admire those who, at a young age, figured out what they wanted their lives to be & got it done - even if "all" they wanted was a good job, family, fishing on weekends, comfortable retirement, etc.
 
#14
LotusCarsLtd52 said:
I have in my mind an image of the stereotypical high school or college band: full of dreams but lacking in skill or originality. And frankly I don't want to end-up like that.

So basically I have two questions regarding this:

1) Why does this happen with these bands? What is the common denominator that these "typical high school bands" have that makes them so unstellar?

2) How does one avoid this problem?
Click to expand...

1. They're not formally (self-taught?) trained like you. Whatever social circle they grew up in funneled their interest into that one category.

2. FAKEBOOKS, SHADOWS OF MOTOWN... and learning other instruments
 
#17
Keep playing and keep recording, over and over. Stay focused and hungry. Life changes, everything does. Look at the great bands for inspiration and study them. Learn good habits from them. Actually listen to old veterans who give advice. I know it's hard, but there is wisdom coming out of their mouths from years of mistakes and triumphs.
 
#18
electracoyote said:
Get some skill and originality, and surround yourself with players who have skill and originality.
Click to expand...

This is good advice, but I'd go a bit further and say that originality trumps skill in some cases.

Try to write and perform music that nobody else is performing. Trying to be "totally original" is nigh impossible, and somewhat paralyzing, but do your best to not play what everyone else is playing. Don't be contrary just for the sake of it... just be honest.

And be honest on stage. If you're an insane showman, then be that person. If you're an introvert, then be that person. There's nothing worse than watching someone "pretend" to be a showman, or pretend to be a rockstar on stage. People can smell the dishonesty.

Iggy and Rollins were great showmen because they were really like that. Joey Ramone was a great singer because he was honest. James Murphy (LCD Soundsystem) is a great bandleader because he's being himself. Thom Yorke is an introvert and it works for him.

And re: drummers: If you have a bad drummer, you are in a bad band. Period. You don't need Terry Bozzio or George Kolias, you just need a musical drummer that knows how to keep time, and knows when NOT to play. I think Meg White is a great effing drummer. Rick Menck is a great effing drummer.
(Ric Menck playing on Matthew Sweet's Divine Intervention)


My two cents.
 
#19
Good stuff here. +1 to timing, leaving space, and expanding your musical horizons.

Now first, I'm not 100% sure what kind of music you're really talking about, but I'm going to assume the typical kind of indie rock band that most high school and college kids are into. My last original band played out a lot, and we'd play the popular bar scene where people our age (mid 20's) frequent, and we've played with hundreds of bands. Most of them were very forgettable for the sole reason that ALL OF THEIR SONGS SOUNDED THE SAME.

The band I was in broke up last Nov due to our lead singer/keyboard player frequently being too drunk and screwing up. I actually played trombone & trumpet in that band. I started with a new band in Feb and am playing bass. This band is more traditional straight ahead indie rock, and when I started jamming with them and it was obvious this was going to lead to a real band, I made it very clear that musically my one condition was that our songs have variety. It's great because we've drawn on a lot of different influences. We've got one song that's reminiscent of White Stripes, one that's influenced by the Flaming Lips, one that's pretty bluesy that has a Wilco vibe to it, one that's got a My Morning Jacket feel. I think that variety is KEY. Of course, that's just my opinion. I hope this helps you out.
 
#20
I feel they lack openness, honesty, candor and attitude. You have to have something to say if you're gonna be an artist-artist, and you're gonna have to be brutally open about it.

Most of those highschoolbands I feel are satisfied with a few cool riffs and some lyrics about having a beer or whathaveyou. Those aren't really gripping stories, you have to be grabbed by the balls by something. That's why the greatest artists IMO have something wrong with them. They're ******** who did some crazy stuff, or they're slightly sociopathic, or they've been hurt or traumatized, or otherwise had a long and interesting life. See Dylan, Cash, Reznor, Lemmy, and so on.

That's also why I despise those Disney, bubblegum, saccharine, every-hair-in-place wide-eyed popstarturds. You need to show your scars and they don't have any.
 

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