How to play like Phil Lesh?

[AlvarHanso]

No one mentioned "Touch of Grey"? I love the bassline(s) on that. Prolly one of my favorites. I think it is better than the other tunes mentioned in this thread. Wish he weren't a pick player cause he really kicks a$$ with that pick!

Funny you say that, because Touch of Grey was one of the first songs I looked up the bass tab for, and the guy says something like, "Really simple bassline, just two notes, that's it." All he had tabbed out were A and E back and forth. My immediate thought was that Phil never played a 2 note bassline in his life, and certainly not on Touch of Grey, which has a very prominent bassline that goes up and down the neck.

I am kinda confused about the last line, there though. Why would you wish he weren't a pick player since he obviously plays pretty well with a pick, which you acknowledge at the end of that sentence?

 

[mntngrown]

There is an interview with Eric Clapton, somewhere on the usual sources, back in the day when he really did believe he was the "greatist". He mentioned going to San Francisco with Cream, I believe, and said he heard bands like the Dead playing and "struggling". He said something like" haven't you listened to any proper records?" He meant, I believe, that the Dead were not schooled in the blues as religiously as the British bands that brought the genre back to it's source country and made the blues acceptable to mainstream white,(racist?) America. Basically saying they were not adhering tightly to Robert Johnson or Muddy Waters etc.
But Phil Lesh was classically trained at Bay area colleges and was recruited to play bass by the Warlocks. Pigpen was a blues fan and Garcia was an American musicologist of broadspectrum interest.
I love their contribution but think the original and modern personnel of the Allman Bros for instance, are the best jam band performances, but I spent my youth in the Fillmore West and Winterland and was as impressed or more impressed with Albert King opening for Cream, or whoever as I was for the headliner. YMMV.

 

[Tom Howland]

Play everything but the root and everywhere but on the beat.

Nice, also start playing in 1965, and do a lot of acid.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Any suggestions for a really really jazzy show by them? From reading I would expect it in 73?
Any suggestions on another (jam) band with a more jazzy feel?

 

[teleharmonium]

With all due respect to Billy and his partner-in-flam Mickey Hart, I've always felt Phil (followed by Jerry and Bob) had the most solid rhythm in the Dead. Maybe it's from listening to too many bad audience tapes over the years, but I wouldn't set my watch to the Dead's drummers.

Oh, you can set your watch to Billy.... just not to Mickey.

 

[AlvarHanso]

Any suggestions for a really really jazzy show by them? From reading I would expect it in 73?
Any suggestions on another (jam) band with a more jazzy feel?

6/28/74 Parts of it were released on Dick's Picks 12. You can stream it here: Invalid Link Removed

I would highly recommend checking out the Mind Left Body Jam toward the end. It's some of the craziest stuff I've ever heard from the Dead. Jerry's all over the MuTron, and they do a jam on Music Never Stopped that's nice and funky before going into the Mind Left Body Jam progression, there's some Dark Star jamming in there as well, but my favorite part if the My Favorite Things jam. The previous show makes up part of that same Dick's Picks, so it's kind of a highlights of the 2 shows, 6/26/74 also features some very interesting jamming Invalid Link Removed
my favorite parts here are the jam> China Cat and the funky jam they do before the first verse in China Cat, the only version I've heard with that type of jamming in China Cat. The Other One Spanish Jam Wharf Rat is pretty good, but of note to every talkbass user is the Eyes encore. This is perhaps Phil's peak on this song. I know huge statement to make, especially for an 11 minute Eyes, but Jerry has two fiery solos before Phil takes his turn, and PHIL JUST TEARS THE ROOF OFF THE PLACE! It's definitely one of his tighter and more jaw-dropping solos! June '74 was a very exploratory month for the Dead. Not every jam works, but more often than not, you're blown away.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Awesome thanks dude!
I'm a little spoiled with the Soundboard recordings haha. So far the sound on the 6/28 isn't to bad though
Yah, this Archive site is sweet.

 

[AlvarHanso]

Yeah, they had the SBDs up there, but took them down, yet left the pages there for some reason. Those two have good quality mixes, and with it being Wall of Sound era, the sound on an AUD should be nice and crisp!
I wish I remembered where I saw it, but there was a page for the must-listen Dark Stars. Those are going to be your best bet for jazzy jamming. France 5/4/72 Grateful Dead Live at L'Olympia on 1972-05-04 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive has a fantastic one that's about 40 minutes with Drums in the middle that is one of the few jammed in Dm, and it's spectacular. 8/27/72 Veneta, OR is a hellaciously good show and the Dark Star somehow slides into El Paso on that one. Invalid Link Removed The Archive is everyone's friend.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Your like my new best friend. * backwoods hillbilly accent*
I'm bookmarking all these at work too. I'll check them out at home if I get a chance
I love me some Dark Star.
I'll let you know what I really liked on those and maybe you could help me find some other stuff too?
I appreciate the pointers!

 

[AlvarHanso]

Hey, it gets me opening them up and searching for some good worktime music! So, anytime, brother!

 

[Meddle]

To play like Phil you need two guitarists who roll off ALL their bass end. The organ/piano player also needs to be EQ-ed with no bass end. The rhythm guitar player needs to play up the neck and rarely use the E string at all if it can be helped. They have to stay above the 5th fret and learn inversions. The lead guitarist can solo at will.

But play like Phil with a guitarist who chugs away on the bottom 3 frets and it won't work.

 

[Floridabwoy]

dozicusmaximus you should check out The Jimmy Herring Band if you want something more jazzy, or Aquarium Rescue Unit with Jimmy and Otiel, who btw, is playing a reunion show at the rebuilt Georgia Theater on Monday night.

Jimmy Herring is also the guitar player for Widespread Panic after for the last few years. He is really where it is at right now.


BTW.. I'm sing Phil Lesh tomorrow night!

 

[AlvarHanso]

Jimmy Herring Band is so so sick. With Oteil or with Neal Fountain, either incarnation is incredible. Jimmy chooses the perfect covers, and his originals are fantastic fusion! Plus, never ever forget about Jeff Sipe, the man is a god on his drum throne!

To meddle's point: I disagree. Jerry used to play a lot of low lines. When he did, Phil played in the upper registers. Check Morning Dew for example. But you may be right about the rhythm player, maybe that's why Weir is so weird (in a totally good way!).

 

[Stick_Player]

I guess this is an okay thread to confess that I keep on hearing about him and how good he is but have never got around to checking out the bands he's playing with.

I'm the same way about Geddy Lee.

I have never consciously heard him or that band he's in. Plus, I couldn't listen to a guy named "Geddy".

 

[RCCollins]

To play like Phil you need two guitarists who roll off ALL their bass end.

I guess you've never heard "Fire on the Mountain," "Shakedown Street," "Estimated Prophet" or any of the numerous other songs where Jerry routinely played with an Mu-Tron Octave Divider. Roll the bass off THAT!

 

[edwinhurwitz]

It's easier if you tune up for at least a half hour.

Or more: Invalid Link Removed

 

[TigerInATrance]

Or more: Invalid Link Removed

Thank you for this... I believe it will be a big hit at parties and such!

 

[Floridabwoy]

hehe... edwin bringing thread back from The Dead.... excuse the pun!

 

[wrench45us]

when the Dead started playing for the acid tests the music provided at earlier acid test were just a collection of people who showed up with instruments. I would guess we all know how that tends to go down. The Dead were a band that had been playing a lot of 4 shows a night divorcee bars up and down the coast north of San Francisco (consider that period their Hamburg strip bar training).
So the acid test participants got to hear a real band when they showed up and that was much appreciated. And the participants had a lot of 'psychic' energy so a 3 minute song wasn't going to cut it. People wanted to dance for hours -- consequently a lot of drawn out improvisation.
Phil's classical trumpet background has been mentioned, but there were a lot of currents in the band, including a lot of No Cal jug band music and Phil and Mickey Hart's interest in 'experimental' music and polyrhythms.
Over the years Phil put a lot of money and energy into promoting modern composers especially in Britain for some reason.
So a lot going on. Little wonder it doesn't just lay out simple.

 

[wisconsindead]

And the participants had a lot of 'psychic' energy so a 3 minute song wasn't going to cut it. People wanted to dance for hours -- consequently a lot of drawn out improvisation.

idk if i would say thats the case. It didnt matter what the "crowd" wanted, the dead were the crowd as well. As far as I understand it most of the performances were relatively short (certainly no 1973-74 show...). You'll notice almost every time they mention the acid tests jerry or someone else mentions how theyd stop playing pretty quick bc they were too high. IMO, i think ultimately it was being able to not play that changed things for the dead. Furthermore the "anything goes" attitude of the acid tests made an impression on the dead and their idea of what a concert or performance is or what they could do on stage.