How to play like Phil Lesh?

[NoiseNinja]

I have tried listening to Greatful Dead several times and failed to hear what the big fuzz was about, despite being a big fan of the late 60's in general, and more specifically the folk and psychedelic music scene of that time, but giving it yet another try following the advice to listen to live recordings (YouTube videos) of the track "Eyes of the World" I think I finally got it.

Quite a charming song and interesting jamming and not least bass play.

I doubt I will ever become a great Dead fan, but at least now I can say I understand why some people would be, and why they consider Phil Lesh a great bass player with an unusual approach to his instrument of choice.

 

[PeteJE]

I resurrect this for a very on-point recent interview with Phil about the influences.
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[PeteJE]

And, also, I just saw him say very directly in an interview that his main playing influence is Bach.

 

[glocke1]

I have tried listening to Greatful Dead several times and failed to hear what the big fuzz was about, despite being a big fan of the late 60's in general, and more specifically the folk and psychedelic music scene of that time, but giving it yet another try following the advice to listen to live recordings (YouTube videos) of the track "Eyes of the World" I think I finally got it.

Quite a charming song and interesting jamming and not least bass play.

I doubt I will ever become a great Dead fan, but at least now I can say I understand why some people would be, and why they consider Phil Lesh a great bass player with an unusual approach to his instrument of choice.

It's something you either get or don't get, but as musicians and bass players I'd hope that there would at least be an appreciation for what they do.

Phils playing style us unique to say the least. I play a lot of GD music and have spent years studying his playing and am still amazed at what he does. I've spent entire afternoons looping 20-30 second sections of various tunes with the speed reduced to 50-75% just to get a better understanding of his note choices, his phrasing and his feel.

Much of what he does is just simply downright cool and he's got such a firm grasp of harmony and Rythym that he can get away with doing many things that most bassists wouldn't think of doing.

For me, the era to really focus on for trying to understand his playing and hearing some cool bass work are the years between 1972 and 1974, basically the Europe'72 tour and the Pacific Northwest tour that occurred in '73-'74.

There is so much cool and interesting bass work going on in that time frame its amazing. Most of it is accessible if you have a decent ear and are a decent player and willing to put in the time and effort to listen to his bass lines and pick them out. Much of his playing reminds me of what a horn player would be doing as either melody lines against whatever chord changes he is playing against.

The later years in the 70s are good also, but once the mid-80's roll around much of his playing is just too busy and inaccessible to me for the most part.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I have long listened to many genres and find beauty and joy in them all. Carrying things from one musical style to another has always happened. Rock grew from other genres and has spawned and embraced other styles as long as it’s been here. Dead music is a great example, and I bring other stuff into it and bring Phil/Dead into other stuff.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Been listening to a lot of Dead lately and I think you have to look at Phil's playing in the context of the era when he began to play. He was trained in classical composition, and was a semi-serious jazz trumpeter, when Jerry asked him to play bass. This was the early 60's, so "rock bass" as we all know it was just starting to take shape. I doubt Phil listened to much pop music at that time, so his take on bass playing was completely open and unhindered, IMO. He had no preconceived ideas of what the bass should do in a rock format. Although he certainly realized the bass has to provide some sort of foundation through roots and basic chord tones, I think he also viewed his bass lines as a sort of counterpoint to the melody and harmonic structure of the tunes. No doubt he studied counterpoint pretty heavily in school and he definitely brought all that into his playing with the Dead. I don't think anyone else could have played what he did at that time. And, certainly if anyone else had been the Dead's bassist, they would've been a totally different band.

But, I also think the LSD helped... a lot.

As a trumpeter he’d also have been at least somewhat aware of what the low brass was doing. I hear tuba and trombone influences in there.

 

[Dave Klausner]

I was listening to Friend of the Devil off American Beauty the other day, and the line that Phil comes in with on the intro is totally a horn line!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The reason why you can't find anyone who has pinned down Phil's style is the fact that his playing really varies. What he is most known for basswise is his melodic style. He'll play melodies throughout a song, sometimes playing off of the vocal, sometimes Jerry, sometimes off of the keys, sometimes out there all by himself. I've played many Dead covers over the years and the one thing that I've learned is that if you play the song the way Phil played it, you better have a drummer that knows what the song is supposed to sound like already, because they're getting no clues from you. The drummer cannot follow you if you're copping Lesh licks. If you want to learn how to play like Phil; study your theory, chord, scales and whatnot; smoke lotsa really good weed; and play with a bunch of incredibly talented hippies for about 40 years. That should get you there.

Edit: I would like to add that I in no way condone the use of illegal drugs, playing with hippies, or studying whatnot.

O.K., back to the question, how to play bass like Phil Lesh. Learn music theory and harmony inside out and don't get stuck in the typical bass player "root note/lock with the drummer" mentality. Phil sees the bass as an equal voice in an ensemble where every instrument is equally responsible for rhythm, melody and harmony. Phil was originally a trumpet player who was into avant garde classical music and jazz and he started playing bass when he joined the Dead. At that time rock music was not as formulized as it is now, so his peers were guys like McCartney, Jamerson, Casady, Entwistle, Jack Bruce, etc., players who were also pretty complex harmonically.

More of my faves!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

The weirdest comments to me here are those upset he plays with a pick. That’s a bizarre attitude. Pick, fingers, coin - play what works for you with your instrument for the music.

 

[Ritter667]

That and mushrooms. Lots of mushrooms.

I am pretty certain their preferred psychedelica was of a more synthetic nature and starts with L (synthesized from a fungus though originally).

That said, music is all about listening, so no better way to learn how to play like someone than to actually listening to that someone playing.

I assume you have already done that though, so suppose the missing ingredient would be LSD?

Maybe taking up trumpet playing as well?

However I never understood people's desire to sound like someone else. you do you, and let Phil do Lesh...

Cause that will always be what you do best, regardless, and I am quite certain what made Phil Lesh sound like himself.

Or something more than Lesh, something more than you, as music does best...

 

[Nedmundo]

The weirdest comments to me here are those upset he plays with a pick. That’s a bizarre attitude. Pick, fingers, coin - play what works for you with your instrument for the music.

Definitely. I prefer playing with my fingers, but due to a finger joint problem, I play with a pick 95% of the time, and I've learned to appreciate the benefits. In particular, it works darned nicely in the GD cover band! After one of our sets, some dude in the audience actually gave me some flack about using a pick, which was bizarre.

I use fives all the time in this band, but if I used fours I might want to take things furthur and get something like this:

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[Miles_ONeal]

I think to play like Lesh you have to first listen to a LOT of shows..I went to a lot of them back in the good ol days and studied him intently..but mainly I have isolated him on tapes ( shows ) and got it internalized in my head what he would do...the problem with that is, they never played a song the same exact way twice so its not like you could learn the song and be done..you have to develop his feel and what he might play. Obviously there is the thing of the different era's..Phil played different in the 80s with his 6 string than in the 70s with the 4 string basses so there is also that..not totally different but obviously there is a difference...

its actually impossible to play like phil..Skip from DSO has it down pretty close..probably the best at it that i have heard..I don't try to be phil but I do use a lot of the things he does in my playing when I can..

And there you have it. I think to play like Phil, you have to not be trying to play like Phil. Yes, listen to lots of Dead, but do your thing in as Phillish a manner as you can. One of my favorite things to do is to listen to many versions of the same song over a few days or weeks, often repeating one version a dozen or more times because there's always more to discover whether in the micro or macro. This week I'm immersed mostly in Bertha. That may extend into a month.

Some people say to play like Phil you can never repeat yourself. But Phil does repeat himself, if only in the micro. Nowhere near for a whole song, but maybe a couple of bars repeated 4 times in the intro or for a certain verse, then start introducing subtle and/or unsubtle changes. And he uses the whole, glorious fretboard, or darn close to it. And, as with jazz, if he hits an odd note, he's likely to run with it - maybe for a while, maybe just until he gets somewhere else he wants to be. So, yeah, lots of wandering and exploration, but don't be afraid to stay close to home now and then. You just can't pin Phil's playing down.