How to tell my parents?

[Roy Vogt]

Why do you want to get a degree in music? What are you going to do when you graduate? Unless you're teaching at a school you don't need a degree to go far in music.

To be honest, the degree doesn't matter as much as the skills and network that you acquire in Music School. Refer to my list of the top 6 things working bass players need to have long careers several posts back. Ear training, harmony, ensembles, improvisation classes, keyboard skills, pretty much everything I encountered at North Texas State and The University of Miami has found it's way into my professional life as a player, even things I hated and thought were irrelevant at the time!
If you don't get solid ear training skills there's no way you can learn songs quickly. If you don't get good reading skills on your bass you will be in the bottom 95% of the employment pool as a freelancer. If you don't understand harmony there is no way you will be able to "fake" a tune on a gig (most Standards have set formulas).
As I write this a friend of mine is driving from Illinois to Nashville to replace a young bassist who didn't have the skill set to "hang" on a gig. He didn't have the ear-training and theory skills to learn 60+ tunes in 1-2 days of rehearsal, but instead was relying on rote memorization like so many Rock and Top 40 Band players so he was left in the dust and sacked. It's not a Rock Star gig, but it's a solid working band with an American Idol finalist from several years back. The pay is $400-500 per date and they have a full tour booked. Experience and getting the best skill set you can makes this stuff happen. Everyone says "he got the gig because of politics/connections". Connections can get you in the door, but it's up to your competency to keep you in the room.

 

[pnut166]

This may ruffle some feathers, but a degree from Berklee - while it is something to be extremely proud of, isn`t necessary for a career in music. If your parents are rich and can just write a check, then yeah, going to Berklee would be great. But if your parents are blue collar - which I sense by your Dad`s practicality, then I understand his reservations. I just put my stepdaughter through college and had to dissuade her from a degree in theater, so I get it. I wanted to go to the Art Institute when I was your age, but instead went to a community college. Got a degree in nursing, and have made a good career out of it. It affords me a nice lifestyle, ability to provide a stable income for my family, and funds my hobby - music. You can be just as passionate about music and reach your potential and pursue your goals with or without Berklee.

 

[corrosivemind19]

Double majors sound a lot scarier than they really are, especially if you start your freshman year with the double major in mind. You'd be surprised how little extra work it is compared to a major and a minor.

+1 True. Most times its just a few extra courses. take them in the summer and boom you still get done in 4 years (at least in MY experience)

 

[SMILEYSIXX]

I never really considered the fact that a degree in music isn't quite as useful as a degree in another field. While it is an impressive feat, and will turn some heads, you could have a piece of paper and still not be as good as other musicians who have worked at it as a hobby instead of a career.

Taking that into consideration, a better option may be to double major in a more practical school like Miami, as someone suggested. I will always want music to play a role in my life as a hobby or a bill-payer. I really have to thank everyone for their input.

 

[Nicky]

There is also a two week music camp at The University of Miami. One of my Nashville bass students (a high school senior) studied with Nicky Orta there and came back raving about it. That made me feel really good given that Nicky is an old student of mine (as a 14 year old he learned "Teen Town" by ear off of Heavy Weather!). I'm a U of M alumni so I can vouch for their instruction as well.
I'd say to check out Belmont, but we're in Nashville so it's technically still in the South.

Roy,
I'm glad he enjoyed his time at the UM camp. He did a great job in my combo. I didn't realize he was your student! Anyway, I can see you've been very busy lately. Good for you! Keep up the fantastic work.

All the best,
Nicky

 

[Mapleleaf]

i can appreciate where the Op is coming from and the dilemma he faces with his dad.
I havent read every post and apologies if I've missed anything ....

I'd like to add teh following personal experiance if I may.. The teenage son of friend of my wife's was in a local band and spent hours and hours practicing guitar ( not bass) and took menial supermarket shelf stacking jobs to get by - his dad was not impressed in the slightest - kept on at him to get a proper job and/or go back to school. the band played a few gigs and had original material on myspace and over the space of a couple of years the band gained mpore and more popularity locally (Manchester UK). so much so that they were talent spotted and given a recording contract - they released a debut album and got a gold disc - which his dad now proudly displays on the living room wall and is so proud of the fact his hithero wayward son followed his gut and stuck with his dream of becomming a sucessful band member. Note sucessful band member not musician ... he apparantly cant read music but can play his instrument like the pro he in fact now is - he gets paid to play and now tours the world with the band supporting major artists. he is only about 22 years old or so.

I am not sure if this is an exception or not- it probably is but the point here is you have to make a choice ... go to school and study to please your parents or follow your dream/passion and study to please yourself. Its a tough call if your dad is paying for college but how many kids choose not to follow their parents ideals as far as schooling is concerened - its your future and you have to do what is best for you.

My own stepson was always into computer games from an early age - we thought he would grow out of it and settle down to study for a proper job . he didnt but we didnt pressure him and reluctently funded him through university for three years to study computer game storyboard design - he graduated with a first class honours and a special award for excellance in his studies. he is now still looking for work in his field but is hopeful of something next week actually - the point here being if we pressured him to study something he didnt really want to do its unlikely he would have made it through unniversity. at least he has a good qualification rather than perhaps something mediocre. He is living on his own in London and working bars to pay his rent - he made his bed and he is lying in it - not our choice but he is his own person and wants to make his own way in the world and you have to admire his tenacity and hard work.

So we have two people who are so passionate about what they want to achieve that they went for it regardless of what the parent thought was best for them. One is a sucessful band member and one is still looking for work.

its a tough choice for sure ... if you can study music and have a plan B then that isnt a bad thing - but are you then diluting your true passion??

My wife & I chose to support our son 100% and if it doesnt work out he is still our son and we will continue to support him ( not necesarily financially though - he still needs to support himself as he is doing presently )

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[uethanian]

this was probably already voiced previously, but my 2 cents...

i've rewrote this like 3 times; i think what i want to say is that if you're dad's footing the bill, take advantage of it. college is a great experience, it's fantastic to live away from home, and honestly the particular subject you study is kind of a secondary concern...

i've known people who have either graduated from berklee or are currently attending. it's not a bad institution, but the student experience is separate from that at a regular university. two of my highschool class mates are in boston...1 at berklee and 1 at boston university. literally right next to each other, but their college lives are so completely different.

so what i'm trying to say is, don't view college as a training ground for a particular career. it's not (well heh unless you're in engineering but that's a different story). i've probably learned more from the people i've met than from any course i've taken.

if you're really serious about music, you can make it on your own. if you're self motivated to practice 4-5 hours a day, great. i don't think you need to pay someone to tell you to practice.

 

[Munjibunga]

Read this thread.

 

[Munjibunga]

Anyway, OK, you have the passion. Do you have the talent? Do you excel in subjects other than music? Some people do make it in the music business. Much of their success has to do with luck and being in the right place at the right time. Knowing the right people plays a huge role, too. You need something to set yourself apart from all the other people who get a degree in a music-related field, then look for something to do.

It can be done, but the chances are maybe one in a hundred (dunno, maybe one in 10,000) that you will be successful in the field of music. Compare that to maybe 99 in 100 for people with a degree in engineering.

 

[NineSpine]

i can appreciate where the Op is coming from and the dilemma he faces with his dad.
I havent read every post and apologies if I've missed anything ....

I'd like to add teh following personal experiance if I may.. The teenage son of friend of my wife's was in a local band and spent hours and hours practicing guitar ( not bass) and took menial supermarket shelf stacking jobs to get by - his dad was not impressed in the slightest - kept on at him to get a proper job and/or go back to school. the band played a few gigs and had original material on myspace and over the space of a couple of years the band gained mpore and more popularity locally (Manchester UK). so much so that they were talent spotted and given a recording contract - they released a debut album and got a gold disc - which his dad now proudly displays on the living room wall and is so proud of the fact his hithero wayward son followed his gut and stuck with his dream of becomming a sucessful band member. Note sucessful band member not musician ... he apparantly cant read music but can play his instrument like the pro he in fact now is - he gets paid to play and now tours the world with the band supporting major artists. he is only about 22 years old or so.

I am not sure if this is an exception or not- it probably is but the point here is you have to make a choice ... go to school and study to please your parents or follow your dream/passion and study to please yourself. Its a tough call if your dad is paying for college but how many kids choose not to follow their parents ideals as far as schooling is concerened - its your future and you have to do what is best for you.

My own stepson was always into computer games from an early age - we thought he would grow out of it and settle down to study for a proper job . he didnt but we didnt pressure him and reluctently funded him through university for three years to study computer game storyboard design - he graduated with a first class honours and a special award for excellance in his studies. he is now still looking for work in his field but is hopeful of something next week actually - the point here being if we pressured him to study something he didnt really want to do its unlikely he would have made it through unniversity. at least he has a good qualification rather than perhaps something mediocre. He is living on his own in London and working bars to pay his rent - he made his bed and he is lying in it - not our choice but he is his own person and wants to make his own way in the world and you have to admire his tenacity and hard work.

So we have two people who are so passionate about what they want to achieve that they went for it regardless of what the parent thought was best for them. One is a sucessful band member and one is still looking for work.

its a tough choice for sure ... if you can study music and have a plan B then that isnt a bad thing - but are you then diluting your true passion??

My wife & I chose to support our son 100% and if it doesnt work out he is still our son and we will continue to support him ( not necesarily financially though - he still needs to support himself as he is doing presently )

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm not saying your story about your stepson doesn't hit on some good points, but I don't think the video game industry and the music industry are comparable, and I say that as someone who has had experience in both. Video games are an often misunderstood, but booming and building industry. Game sales are consistently rising, more people are becoming gamers, and the growth shows absolutely no signs of slowing down whatsoever. There are constantly new studios opening because investment into the game industry is good business.

The music industry is basically the polar opposite of that, to put it bluntly.

 

[NineSpine]

Compare that to maybe 99 in 100 for people with a degree in engineering, and don't live in the United States.

Fixed

 

[mmjazzbass]

out of all the conservatories, Berklee is definitely the most willing to give you a good scholarship if you deserve it. They maintain a 4000 student population so that all the slackers and bad musicians there pay the tuition of the truly good players who get merit-based scholarships. So that's something to mention to your dad, or just to keep in mind if you decide to pay it yourself. Also, Berklee is unique in that you can get a great education in all ends of the music business, from performance to recording to synthesis to filmscoring etc. Another thing to point out to your dad.

 

[pbass2]

My 2 cents, probably voiced earlier--learn to play the bass or whatever instruments you dig, read music, compose, etc. as best you can and keep feeding that passion, but put at least as much energy as you would put into that into being as bleeding-edge with technology as possible. That includes being VERY savvy and self-sufficient with more than just basic skills in digital audio (in Protools or Logic in particular--this is simply imperative), multi-media including video and interactive, and, depending on how deep you wanna go, programming/software development. I'm a full-time composer, sound designer, bassist, programmer, who dropped out after one year in music school to go on the road at 19, so I had to land on all of it kind of by accident, but the one thing that has been constant in my 25 years of being in the biz is the fact that the better my game in regards to new technology, the more I work. So whatever that means in terms of school goes--a double major in music and new media, computer science, etc. etc. etc.---that is what I would emphasize.

 

[fourfinger]

Respect your dad. Don't expect him to pay for Berklee. Pay for that yourself if it is your only dream.

Dad's job is to steer you in the right direction. If he gives in to paying for Berklee for you, then unnecessary pressure is on both of you for years to come.

Don't join the Army expecting the GI bill to pay for Berklee either... It would, but the price is too high, because in eight years you are going to be a different person (and you can count on that IRR keeping you in for all eight instead of the expected four).

I think if you went to college for music education, you could live a life immersed in music and still make dad feel good about paying for your college (whatever part you can't pay him back for of course).

My school music teachers played in bands throughout their college years, their teaching careers and their retirements. They made extra money with private lessons and instrument repair moreso than performance, but they always had a performance of some kind coming up.

They were (and still are) all happy people, and (to my knowledge) none ever went to Berkeley, but all have Masters degrees in music education.

You have two options: make some sort of compromise with your dad, or make plans on how to pay for Berkeley yourself, if that's what you feel you need to do.

Whatever you do, DON'T go to college for Dad's preferred major, if it is just to cash in on his generosity, all the while planning to change careers, as has been suggested.

My vote goes to Music Education!

 

[SMILEYSIXX]

Music is kind of a weird field, because it's one of those fields where you don't need a degree to make it. Depending on your view, a degree may look like a waste of time. Unlike, let's say surgery, where if you don't have a degree, you aren't getting within ten feet of a scalpel. I understand the situation and the fact that most well established musicians don't have a degree in music, or even a college education for some. But, as a friend pointed out to me, you must also take into consideration the state of the american economy. There are people with doctorates flipping burgers because the everyone's being torn to shreds financially because of the recession. The way things are looking, a degree in any field is still going to give you only a one in a hundred shot of a career. If a degree in a "secure" field is still giving you a shot in the dark, why try to get into a field you don't like as opposed to a passion you have when you have just about the same chance in both? This situation is obviously exaggerated, but something to think about...

 

[Roy Vogt]

My 2 cents, probably voiced earlier--learn to play the bass or whatever instruments you dig, read music, compose, etc. as best you can and keep feeding that passion, but put at least as much energy as you would put into that into being as bleeding-edge with technology as possible. That includes being VERY savvy and self-sufficient with more than just basic skills in digital audio (in Protools or Logic in particular--this is simply imperative), multi-media including video and interactive, and, depending on how deep you wanna go, programming/software development. I'm a full-time composer, sound designer, bassist, programmer, who dropped out after one year in music school to go on the road at 19, so I had to land on all of it kind of by accident, but the one thing that has been constant in my 25 years of being in the biz is the fact that the better my game in regards to new technology, the more I work. So whatever that means in terms of school goes--a double major in music and new media, computer science, etc. etc. etc.---that is what I would emphasize.

+1 At Belmont we have a Commercial Music Degree with a Music Tech Emphasis (Sequencing, Sound Design, Pro Tools and Digital Performer as well as Garage Band 101). I tell any students I'm advising who wish to be session bassists that they should seriously consider this. I wish it were around when I was going to school!

 

[Roy Vogt]

Roy,
I'm glad he enjoyed his time at the UM camp. He did a great job in my combo. I didn't realize he was your student! Anyway, I can see you've been very busy lately. Good for you! Keep up the fantastic work.

All the best,
Nicky

Thanks, Nicky! He came for his first lesson last week after you rocked his world at the camp and sent him back to Nashville with questions for me to answer! Great job! Please give my best to Don.

 

[oniman7]

This has been a great read for me, as somebody who had the same question (didn't get nearly as many responses... maybe it's the title ). The only other things I seem to have a talent/passion for are writing and psychology. I don't know that I could devote a life to pyschology, though, and just use what I know in daily conflicts such as mediation, and in my writing.

However, it seems that the roles of writers are changing with the internet growing. If I remember right, the number of people subscribing to newspapers and magazines is rapidly decreasing. That said, at 14 (last September) I managed to land a spot writing monthly for a local newspaper and making a meager $25 a month.

I now have a lot of things to think about and I must admit I've been slightly depressed reading this thread XD. I'd love to retain music in some way as a paying part of my life.



To anyone reading this, what do you think of becoming a sort of media specialist? This would allow me to work with sound and mixing (relevant to my music) writing, computers (which I have a knack for and a father who does this for a living) maybe web design, etc. Is this viable? Is there a degree as a media specialist, or would I have to do these things individually?


Cheers
Dakota

 

[Roy Vogt]

This has been a great read for me, as somebody who had the same question (didn't get nearly as many responses... maybe it's the title ). The only other things I seem to have a talent/passion for are writing and psychology. I don't know that I could devote a life to pyschology, though, and just use what I know in daily conflicts such as mediation, and in my writing.

However, it seems that the roles of writers are changing with the internet growing. If I remember right, the number of people subscribing to newspapers and magazines is rapidly decreasing. That said, at 14 (last September) I managed to land a spot writing monthly for a local newspaper and making a meager $25 a month.

I now have a lot of things to think about and I must admit I've been slightly depressed reading this thread XD. I'd love to retain music in some way as a paying part of my life.



To anyone reading this, what do you think of becoming a sort of media specialist? This would allow me to work with sound and mixing (relevant to my music) writing, computers (which I have a knack for and a father who does this for a living) maybe web design, etc. Is this viable? Is there a degree as a media specialist, or would I have to do these things individually?


Cheers
Dakota

I don't see why not. I would check at The Art Institute of Atlanta. I have a former student, Alan Barnes, who is instructing classes in New Media, etc.
I'm reminded of the fine bassists I know (Bryan Beller and Abbi Roth for example) who are not only musicians but journalists, writing for Bass Player and Bass Frontiers respectively.
One truth in making a living in the Music Business in 2010 is you have to wear a whole lot of different hats and be a bit of an entrepeneur.
Of course, we could all get a nice secure job in say the Financial Sector at Goldman Sachs.....ooops!.....or a gig in the growing energy field like Enron.....ooops!
As Robben Ford once said, "No guarantees!"

 

[jacofox]

I'm not sure how American colleges work...can't you get government assistance on school fees? Or try for a scholarship. If worse comes to worse you don't have to study music at school to have a career in music...its just one of many pathways available...