How to tell my parents?

[Roy Vogt]

I'm not sure how American colleges work...can't you get government assistance on school fees? Or try for a scholarship. If worse comes to worse you don't have to study music at school to have a career in music...its just one of many pathways available...

All of the above. As an earlier post noted, the "scary good" Berklee students often attend on Scholarship, being subsidized by paying students. Another reason to make sure your academics are in good shape, because they are a major factor in most universities and colleges as well.

 

[oniman7]

I don't see why not. I would check at The Art Institute of Atlanta. I have a former student, Alan Barnes, who is instructing classes in New Media, etc.
I'm reminded of the fine bassists I know (Bryan Beller and Abbi Roth for example) who are not only musicians but journalists, writing for Bass Player and Bass Frontiers respectively.
One truth in making a living in the Music Business in 2010 is you have to wear a whole lot of different hats and be a bit of an entrepeneur.
Of course, we could all get a nice secure job in say the Financial Sector at Goldman Sachs.....ooops!.....or a gig in the growing energy field like Enron.....ooops!
As Robben Ford once said, "No guarantees!"

I had actually thought of trying to write for a magazine for something I love. Guitar Player at first, but now Bass Player or something like that. Worst comes to worst, even trying for one like Gameinformer wouldn't be bad, as long as it's something I love to do.

 

[ridgeback]

I never really considered the fact that a degree in music isn't quite as useful as a degree in another field. While it is an impressive feat, and will turn some heads, you could have a piece of paper and still not be as good as other musicians who have worked at it as a hobby instead of a career.

Taking that into consideration, a better option may be to double major in a more practical school like Miami, as someone suggested. I will always want music to play a role in my life as a hobby or a bill-payer. I really have to thank everyone for their input.

dude nobody wants to squash your dream...the older guys here just dont want to see you make a mistake and end up mid 30s before you notice that money is tight..you can make a job of music.i did before i quit for years because it became a job,life on the road sucks,imo..its very easy to say go for it and ill try but listen to your parents,,do a degree in something first get something under your belt first then you can always come back to music..its very hard to go back to school in your late 20,30s..life goes by very quick mate and music as good as it is and as much as i love it,its not what you think it is..your parents are always going to give good advice,you might not see it now but someday you will..all this internet stuff is not real...people (including me)talk **** sometimes..mom and dad will always be there..

 

[pnut166]

How many big-name "musicians" out there right now have a degree from Berklee - or anywhere, for that matter ? It`s easy to see that the music biz is going through a big upheaval right now - the existing model is in it`s death throes. Chances are good that a decade or two from now, there won`t be any big labels to impress with your degree - what then ? Berklee-alumni status ain`t gonna mean much when everyone is doing their own thing selling their music independently online. If by "career in music" you mean as a performing artist - forget it. You would do just as well to take music as a minor, granted you have talent. Talent is gonna get you alot farther than school in the long run. But if you hope to pursue scoring, production, teaching, editing, recording, marketing, etc. then yeah, a Berklee degree has some merit.

 

[Pacman]

How many big-name "musicians" out there right now have a degree from Berklee - or anywhere, for that matter ? It`s easy to see that the music biz is going through a big upheaval right now - the existing model is in it`s death throes. Chances are good that a decade or two from now, there won`t be any big labels to impress with your degree - what then ? Berklee-alumni status ain`t gonna mean much when everyone is doing their own thing selling their music independently online. If by "career in music" you mean as a performing artist - forget it. You would do just as well to take music as a minor, granted you have talent. Talent is gonna get you alot farther than school in the long run. But if you hope to pursue scoring, production, teaching, etc. then yeah, a Berklee degree has some merit.

This is full of so much misinformation....

Labels have NEVER been impressed with degrees from Berklee, or any other school for that matter. It's apples and oranges - Berklee is a school. A place to learn your craft and (in Berklee's case) network with great musicians. It has zero to getting signed, or selling your music. It's also not going to help you get a gig scoring or producing, either. You need the skills for that, just like you do as an artist.

And to the idea that you can't make a living as a performing artist - that's bunk. I've done it in my way (with benefits, retirement, and job security by the way), and many others here have posted that it's possible.

 

[Eminentbass]

I think one thing that scares parents is that they see musicians as only the ones on tv trying to make it big. There are many more working musicians out there who aren't in it for stardom than there are successful rock stars. Most people don't realise this because most working musicians are behind the scenes playing supporting roles. It takes hard work, dedication and often luck to get it right but there is work out there for guys with the skills required to go beyond just playing in a band.

 

[Jon Moody]

My parents really pushed me to get a degree in a different field, but to take as many music classes as I could (some were closed to non-majors). I still got all of the theory classes, sight-singing, history and everything else that most of the majors got, and was still able to join some combos (they reserved the top jazz bands for the music majors).

What it DID do was free me up to actually play out on a regular basis in town. I can't vouch for Berkelee, but most of the students at the college I went to spent more time in the practice room than in the field. I ended up getting more real world experience right off the bat, and still get a degree in a field that I was able to use.

So, my parents were right. I should also mention my parents are both retired music educators.

 

[tycobb73]

i can appreciate where the Op is coming from and the dilemma he faces with his dad.
I havent read every post and apologies if I've missed anything ....

I'd like to add teh following personal experiance if I may.. The teenage son of friend of my wife's was in a local band and spent hours and hours practicing guitar ( not bass) and took menial supermarket shelf stacking jobs to get by - his dad was not impressed in the slightest - kept on at him to get a proper job and/or go back to school. the band played a few gigs and had original material on myspace and over the space of a couple of years the band gained mpore and more popularity locally (Manchester UK). so much so that they were talent spotted and given a recording contract - they released a debut album and got a gold disc - which his dad now proudly displays on the living room wall and is so proud of the fact his hithero wayward son followed his gut and stuck with his dream of becomming a sucessful band member. Note sucessful band member not musician ... he apparantly cant read music but can play his instrument like the pro he in fact now is - he gets paid to play and now tours the world with the band supporting major artists. he is only about 22 years old or so.

I am not sure if this is an exception or not- it probably is but the point here is you have to make a choice ... go to school and study to please your parents or follow your dream/passion and study to please yourself. Its a tough call if your dad is paying for college but how many kids choose not to follow their parents ideals as far as schooling is concerened - its your future and you have to do what is best for you.

My own stepson was always into computer games from an early age - we thought he would grow out of it and settle down to study for a proper job . he didnt but we didnt pressure him and reluctently funded him through university for three years to study computer game storyboard design - he graduated with a first class honours and a special award for excellance in his studies. he is now still looking for work in his field but is hopeful of something next week actually - the point here being if we pressured him to study something he didnt really want to do its unlikely he would have made it through unniversity. at least he has a good qualification rather than perhaps something mediocre. He is living on his own in London and working bars to pay his rent - he made his bed and he is lying in it - not our choice but he is his own person and wants to make his own way in the world and you have to admire his tenacity and hard work.

So we have two people who are so passionate about what they want to achieve that they went for it regardless of what the parent thought was best for them. One is a sucessful band member and one is still looking for work.

its a tough choice for sure ... if you can study music and have a plan B then that isnt a bad thing - but are you then diluting your true passion??

My wife & I chose to support our son 100% and if it doesnt work out he is still our son and we will continue to support him ( not necesarily financially though - he still needs to support himself as he is doing presently )

Good luck with whatever you decide.

This person didn't spend upwards of 100 grand to get his degree. There's nothing wrong with chasing your dreams for a few years. I would actually encourage my kids to do that, but if you look at the cost to beneift ratio on income only, Berklee isn't worth it. You go to a place like that for 100% self enjoyment whereas other majors the mix of self enjoyment / future income is closer to 50/50.

Take a look at the top 5 grossing acts of 2009. How many have music degrees?

There's nothing wrong with a Berklee if that's what you want, but you're going to spend med school money and most likely earn trade school income. You should realize this before going in and don't be disgruntled when you come out that you can't find a job in your feld (like someone else in another post).

 

[Roy Vogt]

A creative way to get to any expensive school is to wait until Grad School and see about attending as a Graduate Assistant. That's really the only way I could afford attending the U of M which is a costly school. As a bonus, the Masters in Music is the minimum accepted crendential for teaching at most Colleges and Universities and even Junior Colleges. Even if you wish to go to Berklee you can always get an undergrad at a state school (since I was in Texas it was UNT for lucky me) and try for a Grad Assistantship or a T A gig at Berklee.
A musician who loves what he does and knows what he's doing will earn more than a miserable accountant or businessman who hates his job. That's simply because the man who loves his work eats, sleeps and lives it while the man who hates his will quit trying. I would recommend Napoleon Hill's book Think And Grow Rich and The Millionaire Next Door to any musician or aspiring musician who is worried about money and "making it".

 

[Roy Vogt]

That's dead right, Jon!
Here's a question for all who have said "don't do it, it didn't work out for me, it's not stable, etc".:
Can you:
1. Sightread anything put in front of you? Work with a conductor?
2. Play convincingly in any style? Do you enjoy any style?
3. Get along with virtually anyone?
4. Double on electric, upright, fretless, whatever?
5. Can you do a Jazz gig without a Real Book and a Top 40/Variety Band gig with absolutely no rehearsal because you know hundreds of songs from the 1930s to Lady Ga Ga?
6. Come up with a studio bass part "in 6 minutes that sounds like you've played it for 6 months"? (to quote my good friend Bob Babbitt)
These are the sort of job skills that will result in a 20+ or 30+ year career as a player.

No one has answered this as of yet. My friends and peers who have this skill set continue to thrive in one of the most competitive markets (Nashville) and one of the worst economies in recent memory.

 

[pnut166]

This is full of so much misinformation....

Labels have NEVER been impressed with degrees from Berklee, or any other school for that matter. It's apples and oranges - Berklee is a school. A place to learn your craft and (in Berklee's case) network with great musicians. It has zero to getting signed, or selling your music. It's also not going to help you get a gig scoring or producing, either. You need the skills for that, just like you do as an artist.

And to the idea that you can't make a living as a performing artist - that's bunk. I've done it in my way (with benefits, retirement, and job security by the way), and many others here have posted that it's possible.

Having the degree is good for getting your foot in the door with certain people; you can`t deny that. If you think a film studio is going to talk to Mike The Sound Guy from the bar vs. a Berklee grad, you are mistaken. And a Berklee pedigree will land him a nice job teaching music at a university. I`m not saying it`s right, I`m just sayin that`s how it is. Like another poster said, it`s talent that`ll keep you in the room, though. Like with all higher education, a degree boils down to it`s a piece of paper - it may get you in the door, but if you can`t outperform your peers, you won`t thrive. And I wasn`t saying "forget it" to making a living as a performing artist - that`s ridiculous. I was saying if he plans to be a performing artist, forget the Berklee degree...pretty much in agreement with your response.

 

[Roy Vogt]

Back to the OP's plight:
I would advise you to find the best teacher you can in the Sarasota area, really work on your reading, get the Berklee books (most are published by Alfred's and are quite challenging for a young bassist) and go through them with your teacher (this means you must locate a bass teacher who will help you with reading and musicianship and not a guitarist/bassist in a Music Store who teaches you songs or shows you "tricks"). Keep your grades up, keep involved in music at your school. Investigate attending some Summer Music Camps next year (Jamey Aebersold, Bass Boot Camp, Victor Wooten's Bass and Nature Camp, Berklee Summer Sessions, Player's School of Music Intensives, there are a ton of them out there). Stay focused on the goal. Forget being a Rock Star for now, just learn to play and play well. Investigate taking some String Bass lessons if you can afford them.
If you take this course of action in High School you'll be in great shape to attend a Music School like Berklee or anywhere else and get the most out of it. If you change your mind you'll still have this skill of focused intensity that can serve you well in medical school, law school or anywhere else you wish to go.

 

[bigtiny]

I don't know what kind of music you're interested in and that has some bearing on this, but I'll give you my thoughts. I live in Boston, I went to Berklee for a year (I was an older student at 33) and here's what I think:

-do NOT go to Berklee to learn music. There's nothing wrong with Berklee, but it's an expensive school in an expensive city. The best thing to go to Berklee for (I'm speaking about a performance track here) is to 'finish' your skills with top pros (walk in the door already knowing how to play and having experience) then study with the upper echelon teachers.

-go to Berklee to make connections. Having gone there already ahead of the game playing wise, use your time and energy to play play play and make connections.

-do NOT go to Berklee and form a pop/metal/grunge band! At what, 35k a year or more, that money will go a lot farther to get you on a playing track if spent on equipment, start up costs, marketing, recording costs etc. You don't need to go to Berklee to learn how to play 3 chords.

-if you want to prepare a 'fall back' position in teaching get ready for the long haul. Teachers are scrambling just like everyone else and the competition for teaching posiitons is fierce. Be prepared to AT LEAST get a Master's degree and probably stick around for a PhD.

If I was 16 I would do the following:

-figure out what you want/need to do musically. Do you want to play music that requires a REAL preparation as a player (jazz, commercial work, etc.)? Or are you more interested in being a rock star? I'm not poo pooing either, it's just that the preparation for each of these is different. I'll assume since you're looking at Berklee that you want to really develop skills.

-get a good private teacher NOW and study/practice HARD
-start playing as much as possible. IF you're interested in doing an original thing START WRITING and PLAYING your own stuff!
-go to a good community or 4 year school with a decent music program and hone all of your skills

or

If you really think you're going to be ready, and you really are ONLY interested in being a 'player' (I'd advise realistically comparing yourself to all of the hotshot players out there and think about where you stand), then do the first two things above and immediately either just get out and play after school, or somehow (convince dad, get a grant, whatever) get someplace like Berklee, or BIT, or whatever.

bigtiny

 

[NineSpine]

I'm not sure how American colleges work...can't you get government assistance on school fees? Or try for a scholarship. If worse comes to worse you don't have to study music at school to have a career in music...its just one of many pathways available...

He would likely be attending school out of state, which kills some of his assistance possibilities. Furthermore, if his parents are talking about funding his school, it's likely they make enough money to disqualify him from receiving assistance until he is 24. Even if you don't speak to your parents, their income is factored into your government aid package until then.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I don't know what kind of music you're interested in and that has some bearing on this, but I'll give you my thoughts. I live in Boston, I went to Berklee for a year (I was an older student at 33) and here's what I think:

-do NOT go to Berklee to learn music. There's nothing wrong with Berklee, but it's an expensive school in an expensive city. The best thing to go to Berklee for (I'm speaking about a performance track here) is to 'finish' your skills with top pros (walk in the door already knowing how to play and having experience) then study with the upper echelon teachers.

-go to Berklee to make connections. Having gone there already ahead of the game playing wise, use your time and energy to play play play and make connections.

-do NOT go to Berklee and form a pop/metal/grunge band! At what, 35k a year or more, that money will go a lot farther to get you on a playing track if spent on equipment, start up costs, marketing, recording costs etc. You don't need to go to Berklee to learn how to play 3 chords.

-if you want to prepare a 'fall back' position in teaching get ready for the long haul. Teachers are scrambling just like everyone else and the competition for teaching posiitons is fierce. Be prepared to AT LEAST get a Master's degree and probably stick around for a PhD.

If I was 16 I would do the following:

-figure out what you want/need to do musically. Do you want to play music that requires a REAL preparation as a player (jazz, commercial work, etc.)? Or are you more interested in being a rock star? I'm not poo pooing either, it's just that the preparation for each of these is different. I'll assume since you're looking at Berklee that you want to really develop skills.

-get a good private teacher NOW and study/practice HARD
-start playing as much as possible. IF you're interested in doing an original thing START WRITING and PLAYING your own stuff!
-go to a good community or 4 year school with a decent music program and hone all of your skills

or

If you really think you're going to be ready, and you really are ONLY interested in being a 'player' (I'd advise realistically comparing yourself to all of the hotshot players out there and think about where you stand), then do the first two things above and immediately either just get out and play after school, or somehow (convince dad, get a grant, whatever) get someplace like Berklee, or BIT, or whatever.

bigtiny

+1 Advance preparation is everything in this case. You want to be the "have you heard this kid?!?!" guy and not just another Freshman wearing an Avenged Sevenfold tee-shirt attending Berklee on their parent's dime.
Connections are everything when you attend a major Music School. Obviously the better you are, the better your connections.
Great observations! The one quibble I have with this is that having a well-rounded musical background will help you whether you are on the career track for Rock Star or not. That way you can still work in the business and not end up as another "Behind the Music" sob story after the Record Deal is gone and the band breaks up.

 

[pbass337]

tell your dad youll have backup plans. thats how i convinced my parents. major in music minor in music business or technology.

 

[ggunn]

I've already made the decision that I want to have a career in music. It's really the only thing I can say that I am completely passionate about. The problem is my parents... my mom already kinda knows that I want to go to Berklee. I've been working on reading and theory all summer and I'm taking a few music classes to try and relearn everything I learned from my band class. I'm trying to pick up a few more instruments to expand my musical knowledge too... the problem is my dad. He's going to be the one paying my tuition, and he isn't exactly too into the idea of a career in music. He constantly complains that I play my bass too much and that music "isn't gonna take you me anywhere in life". One time I tried to bring up the topic of college and I mentioned Berklee, he said "it's a good college... if you wanna do something in music, but that's a waste of time." I am devoted to music and want to do this for a living, but my dad is pretty discouraging. How do I break it to him that this is what I want to do with my life. And I know, I'm only 16 and a lot of you are probably thinking that I'm gonna go be a teenager and change my mind tomorrow, but music is something I really want to do forever and would love nothing more than making a living out of it. Any advice on how to deal with trying to get my dad to understand?

Unless your family has money to burn, don't expect your folks to pay for Berklee. I certainly wouldn't if you were my kid; the odds are way against your ever making an investment like that pay off in an economic sense, no matter how dedicated you are.

Believe it or not, raising a kid is a hideously expensive proposition these days, and one thing that a parent of a teenager anxiously looks forward to is the day when your kid becomes sustainably self-sufficient. Financing a career in music is not a statistically successful strategy toward that end.

Get yourself independent and you can do whatever you want.

BTW, there are plenty of alternate strategies for playing music the rest of your life besides going "all in" at 16.

 

[lowendfriend]

This is a tough situation for parents and sons/daughters alike.

I can relate with my daughter. She's not a musician, but an artist (illustrator) and she always has been since a little kid. It's who she is.

When college time came, although my wife and I talked together about this, we never once objected when she signed up for Rhode Island School of Design (same tuition as Harvard BTW.) It seemed like the exactly right thing to do.

Here she is now, 3 years after graduation, living at home, working in the marketing dept of Whole Foods (hey at least illustrating...she does all their foodie art) but she hates it and the people she works with are way NOT artists but meatcutters and shelf stockers, etc. (Good folks but not gonna help her grow as an artist.)

She has the business acumen of most artists (i.e., none) and doesn't have enough drive to find a better situation in a tough job market for anyone, but much more so for artists.

So here I stand feeling like an idiot for not pushing her toward more practical inclinations.

I guess my reason for posting is: your parents don't hate you for wanting to be a musician....they are just worried about your long range ability to make a living and to make life decisions that are your own, vs. ones that represent a series of compromises because you can't afford to do things you really want to do.

Long n' short of it all is this: it's your choice, but make sure you own it!! And make sure that the passion is real and deep and that it couples into actions that make you excellent and successful doing whatever you choose to do.

As most here have said, music is a tough career path to follow. Have this conversation with your folks and work to get past the bluff and bravado your dad may feel and describe your plan forward and ask for their help and support for what you really want to do. And be brave enough to decide to do something else if you can't clear the end of the runway and fly as a musician. Commit that you'll examine where you are 4 years after college and consider augmenting your education or job situation in a way that may give you more options.

Good luck!

 

[Roy Vogt]

This is a tough situation for parents and sons/daughters alike.

I can relate with my daughter. She's not a musician, but an artist (illustrator) and she always has been since a little kid. It's who she is.

When college time came, although my wife and I talked together about this, we never once objected when she signed up for Rhode Island School of Design (same tuition as Harvard BTW.) It seemed like the exactly right thing to do.

Here she is now, 3 years after graduation, living at home, working in the marketing dept of Whole Foods (hey at least illustrating...she does all their foodie art) but she hates it and the people she works with are way NOT artists but meatcutters and shelf stockers, etc. (Good folks but not gonna help her grow as an artist.)

She has the business acumen of most artists (i.e., none) and doesn't have enough drive to find a better situation in a tough job market for anyone, but much more so for artists.

So here I stand feeling like an idiot for not pushing her toward more practical inclinations.

I guess my reason for posting is: your parents don't hate you for wanting to be a musician....they are just worried about your long range ability to make a living and to make life decisions that are your own, vs. ones that represent a series of compromises because you can't afford to do things you really want to do.

Long n' short of it all is this: it's your choice, but make sure you own it!! And make sure that the passion is real and deep and that it couples into actions that make you excellent and successful doing whatever you choose to do.

As most here have said, music is a tough career path to follow. Have this conversation with your folks and work to get past the bluff and bravado your dad may feel and describe your plan forward and ask for their help and support for what you really want to do. And be brave enough to decide to do something else if you can't clear the end of the runway and fly as a musician. Commit that you'll examine where you are 4 years after college and consider augmenting your education or job situation in a way that may give you more options.

Good luck!

A career as a visual Artist seems even harder than making a living as a bassist! I'd say the same for Acting, Dance, etc. The successful visual Artists I know are sharp entrepeneurs, they teach, they get really good at writing Grant proposals, etc. I guess the moral of the story is that you can't expect the World to say, "Somewhere out there is a great Artist/Actor/Dancer/Bassist-I'm going to look under every rock until I find him or her!" You have to have a strategy and be proactive in any Art-based career IMO.
OK, off to a rehearsal, an afternoon of teaching and a gig-it's too bad I can't find any work as a bassplayer! Ciao for Now!

 

[ggunn]

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, if you aspire to make a living playing music, or anything else that's a "fun" job, expect the competition to be fierce and the rewards to be meager. In tough economic times, square all the above, and (IMO and unfortunately) tough economic times are here to stay.

If I were young and just starting out, I'd become an electrician or a power block electrical engineer.