Humcancelling or Single Coil Jazz Pick-ups & Why

[lowfreq33]

Personally I can't STAND 60 cycle hum. It's in my top 3 most annoying sounds in audio. My feeling is anything I lose by having a dummy coil can be put back with a little eq.

 

[darkstorm]

No reason to get a humming pup. Hum isnt a useful thing. Theres plenty of great choices of humfree J's covering whole range of J sound from vintage to ultra modern and all inbetween. Lol.

 

[KJung]

I just don't get these comments about hum with singles in J basses. Again (for the 20th time), if you learn to just keep a smidge of the second pickup on when favoring the other, you get 90% of the solo'd tone, and virtually no noise. Of course, when both pickups are dimed, there is no my hum at all than HC's.

If you find HC's you dig, that is of course, totally cool. If you like the sound of a particular single coil better, and are afraid to get it due to the possibility of 60 cycle hum, you are misinformed.

 

[KJung]

I've played in a couple places (including a church for 6 years) on a regular basis that had serious electrical issues. The single coil hum from the J on the PJ which I played at the time was real bad and caused complaints from the sound guys. Other places no hum at all.

I finally said forget it, and made the switch. When I started using a JJ, I chose hum cancelling to avoid the same problem at these places. I love the various sounds of single coil J pickups, but IME, there are of some real close or overlapping sounds with some hum cancelling J pickups. Especially with different instruments, different strings, different eq settings, different amps, different rooms, different players, etc.....

This is a classic case of what I am talking about. First, electrical issues can cause noise with either single coils or HC's, and that kind of noise is more about shielding than pickup design.

Secondly, your PJ most likely had an HC J pickup in it, which is really the only thing that will work in that configuration. IF for some reason you put a single coil in a PJ, that again would be user error, since the split coil P pickup would not hum cancel the single coil J. That is the rare case of really HAVING to use an HC J pickup, whether you prefer that or not.

So, again, yet another case of IMO attributing noise problems to a single coil design, when that was most likely not the case (or if it was the case, was due to an incorrect use of a single coil pickup.

Again, there are GREAT sounding HC's, and there is no reason not to use them if you love the tone. My only point is, the same thing goes for single coils (when properly installed and used in a two pickup configuration like a J bass).

 

[12bass]

FWIW, my SJB-75 has a pair of Bartolini 9CBJS single coils in it. While it sounds pretty good with both pickups on full, I also happen to like the sound of the neck pickup by itself, and that means there is hum. Blending in some of the bridge doesn't sound the same, at least if I blend in enough to cancel the hum.

Rickenbackers are even worse... as Rickenbacker didn't even bother to install RWRP pickups, so there's no escaping hum no matter how the controls are set. Some time ago I flipped the magnet on the neck pickup in my 4001 and reversed the polarity so that it hum-cancels with the bridge when both pickups are on.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

It's a funny thing, but I don't ever remember having hum issues with my Rics. But then again, I didn't leave the stock pickups in for very long.

I'm doing a cool project of building a Sidewinder into a Ric cover.

I also like to solo my neck pickup, and that's my preferred tone a lot of the time.

I think one reason why some people have more hum issues might be because they are using some overdrive or higher gain setting on the amp.

I played with a guitarist with a Strat with the stock pickups, and when he would kick in his over drive pedal it was just awful. Most of the guitarist I know that play Strats use some kind of hum canceling pickups, usually the Duncan rails. You certainly can't say they aren't playing a Strat! You wouldn't even know it if someone didn't point it out.

 

[KJung]

FWIW, my SJB-75 has a pair of Bartolini 9CBJS single coils in it. While it sounds pretty good with both pickups on full, I also happen to like the sound of the neck pickup by itself, and that means there is hum. Blending in some of the bridge doesn't sound the same, at least if I blend in enough to cancel the hum.

+1 I agree that if you are one that often uses a pickup totally solo'd, and don't dig the slightly different tone of the sort of 90/10 blend I was talking about, then HC's are the best bet, assuming you can find a HC J pickup that floats your boat.

My main point again is that many who don't ever totally solo a pickup on a J bass still have concerns about hum, and those concerns are IMO unwarranted.

 

[Reuben]

+1 I agree that if you are one that often uses a pickup totally solo'd, and don't dig the slightly different tone of the sort of 90/10 blend I was talking about, then HC's are the best bet, assuming you can find a HC J pickup that floats your boat.

My main point again is that many who don't ever totally solo a pickup on a J bass still have concerns about hum, and those concerns are IMO unwarranted.

My experience is different from yours, Ken. On every J bass I've owned w/ singles on it there was great potential for hum as soon as either pickup was turned down even the tiniest bit from full-on. Keeping a little of the unwanted pickup dialed in made virtually no change to the hum until both pickups were completely full volume. The degree to which this is a significant enough annoyance to address varied. A good example is my current Fender J with stock pickups which in my practice room barely makes any noticeable hum with any relative volume or soloing of pickups. A few weeks ago I played a restaurant gig with this bass and their electrical system in there was totally insane. If I kept both pickups up full there was no hum whatsoever, but turning either one down even a smidgeon from full-on caused brutal hum, almost as loud as the bass signal. One could say that HCs might not have fared well in that cruddy environment either, but it's worth noting that both pickups up full completely killed this hum.

Another situation where hum can really suck is recording. I hear from lots of bassists, "oh sure there's a little bit of hum, but with everyone else playing you can't hear it." True enough, but I am involved in many creative projects where the orchestration is a lot more varied and the music gets very very quiet at times. On a recording session I find myself fighting with hum now and then, using a volume pedal or the knobs on the bass constantly to attenuate the noise. That really gets in the way of being musical, for me at least.

For the time being I've decided to just live with it (well, that and play P-basses most of the time), but I don't agree at all that leaving just a touch of the unwanted pickup cancels hum. That has not been my experience at all in 30 years.

 

[KJung]

My experience is different from yours, Ken. On every J bass I've owned w/ singles on it there was great potential for hum as soon as either pickup was turned down even the tiniest bit from full-on. Keeping a little of the unwanted pickup dialed in made virtually no change to the hum until both pickups were completely full volume. The degree to which this is a significant enough annoyance to address varied. A good example is my current Fender J with stock pickups which in my practice room barely makes any noticeable hum with any relative volume or soloing of pickups. A few weeks ago I played a restaurant gig with this bass and their electrical system in there was totally insane. If I kept both pickups up full there was no hum whatsoever, but turning either one down even a smidgeon from full-on caused brutal hum, almost as loud as the bass signal. One could say that HCs might not have fared well in that cruddy environment either, but it's worth noting that both pickups up full completely killed this hum.

Another situation where hum can really suck is recording. I hear from lots of bassists, "oh sure there's a little bit of hum, but with everyone else playing you can't hear it." True enough, but I am involved in many creative projects where the orchestration is a lot more varied and the music gets very very quiet at times. On a recording session I find myself fighting with hum now and then, using a volume pedal or the knobs on the bass constantly to attenuate the noise. That really gets in the way of being musical, for me at least.

For the time being I've decided to just live with it (well, that and play P-basses most of the time), but I don't agree at all that leaving just a touch of the unwanted pickup cancels hum. That has not been my experience at all in 30 years.

Again, I have never experienced this with the many single coils J's I've owned. Sounds like you might have a shielding issue with that particular bass. I have had similar situations that you describe with various rooms and some basses. For example, there is one room at the top of a tall building in St. Louis where I could not use my MTD... massive radio interference. My other basses were just fine. So, again, I don't think what you are describing is a single coil issue (although it could be in that room specific situation).

 

[Nedmundo]

My experience is identical to Reuben's. My preferred tone is neck pickup on full, and bridge rolled back enough to enter the "fat and growly" zone. I'm guessing that's rolled back 10-20%, but the hum kicks in as soon as I roll the pickup off much at all. In some settings, the hum isn't a problem, but in others, the hum is insane, and turning both pickups on full cures it, so it's definitely the single coils. This is why I use HC pickups.

Out of curiosity, for those who state a strong preference for singles, which HC pickups have you tried?

 

[KJung]

My experience is identical to Reuben's. My preferred tone is neck pickup on full, and bridge rolled back enough to enter the "fat and growly" zone. I'm guessing that's rolled back 10-20%, but the hum kicks in as soon as I roll the pickup off much at all. In some settings, the hum isn't a problem, but in others, the hum is insane, and turning both pickups on full cures it, so it's definitely the single coils. This is why I use HC pickups.

Out of curiosity, for those who state a strong preference for singles, which HC pickups have you tried?

Another thing to remember..... 90% of the impact of the typical blend or vol.vol circuit occurs in the first 5% of so of the taper of those contols. So, to get a kind of 85%/15% pickup blend (i.e., pretty close to a single pickup dimed but still with relatively good hum cancelling properties) we are talking about, for example, just barely 'off center detent' on a typical passive blend control. Any farther than that, and for all practical purposes, each pickup is dimed and you will experience the hum.

Once you get the feel for that VERY slight change in the vol/vol or blend circuit that gives you the maximum 'solo tone with no hum', it is pretty cool, and I've been doing it so long that I don't really notice much difference between HC's and SC's.

I surely haven't experienced every HC J pickup... played Sadowsky, Dimarzio (I guess that is the same as Sadowsky), Bartolini, Nordstrand, Celinder (that was a darn good HC execution there), Fender (AWFUL sounding HC pickups... my god), and a few others. All (except the Fender) sounded good in their own way, and none of them sounded much like the Seymour singles, the Nordstrand singles, etc. to me. Pure personal taste there.

Again, not trying to say singles are better sounding, just that they are better sounding to me, and the hum can be controlled more than many think. Sometimes though, if you really again like to dime one pickup, HC's are kind of a no brainer. I get that. And of course, as an example, there are just as many Sadowsky players who prefer the stock HC's in the J basses as prefer the Sadowsky singles. However, having gigged both a ton, the noise level was identical, at least in my situation.

 

[narud]

I just don't get these comments about hum with singles in J basses. Again (for the 20th time), if you learn to just keep a smidge of the second pickup on when favoring the other, you get 90% of the solo'd tone, and virtually no noise. Of course, when both pickups are dimed, there is no my hum at all than HC's.

If you find HC's you dig, that is of course, totally cool. If you like the sound of a particular single coil better, and are afraid to get it due to the possibility of 60 cycle hum, you are misinformed.

hell, i just got through tracking on a pop album with my 62 jazz with the neck pickup solo'd with no hum issues.

 

[narud]

And, the HC pickups that I thought came the closest of any I've ever heard to the 'nature of single coil J pickup tone' were the Celinder J pickups, which I think were made by Bill Lawrence (although I could be remembering wrong... I get names mixed up). GREAT HC pickups!

PS Strange to see Hendrix with a Les Paul!

i think theyre custom kent armstrongs.

re:hendrix. its funny, my love for fenders extends to guitars too. i cant stand the sound of gibsons and hate playing them too. give me that solo'd neck pickup of a strat or some quacky tones out of the 2nd or 4th positions and im happy!

 

[KJung]

i think theyre custom kent armstrongs.

re:hendrix. its funny, my love for fenders extends to guitars too. i cant stand the sound of gibsons and hate playing them too. give me that solo'd neck pickup of a strat or some quacky tones out of the 2nd or 4th positions and im happy!

+1 That was it. Great pickups, although since the Celinders were active all the time due to the active blend control, not sure how much of that was the pickup versus the pretty significant 'built in voicing' of that Greengrove pre. Killer though for a goosed J tone!

 

[narud]

Right, but my point is, and this is just me I guess, why does your jazz bass have to sound a certain way? I own a bunch of guitars and basses. I have a Strat style Charvel, I tele style guitar I built, a '72 Fender Mustang guitar, 2 '72 Ric 4001s, etc.

The Charvel has 2 pickups, a Lace Sensor someone gave me at the neck, and a humbucker I wound at the bridge. The Tele has Bill Lawrence L-250s and a dual rail humbucker at the bridge. The Mustang has L-250s. My Rics had Hi-A and a gibson mudbucker, and even a DiMarzio Model P...

My point is these are tools to express yourself. I didn't care if my Ric didn't sound exactly like Chris Squire or Paul McCartney because I was trying to sound like me, and not them.

So I never understand why someone would insist that their Jazz bass should sound exactly like everyone else's Jazz bass. There is no right or wrong tone from an instrument. The way it sounds is the way you want it to sound. This is why the after market pickup scene started; people wanted their Fenders or Gibsons to sound different. Now everyone wants stock or vintage tones and wants to blend in.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't get it.

i just want my jazz bass to sound like a fender. thats it. its not about sounding like anyone else. if i want different or more modern tones, i use a different instrument. theres guys who arent willing to sacrifice that fenderness to get rid of hum. to those that dont have that sound in their head, the humcancelling pickups are fantastic.

 

[acebase62]

This is a classic case of what I am talking about. First, electrical issues can cause noise with either single coils or HC's, and that kind of noise is more about shielding than pickup design.

Secondly, your PJ most likely had an HC J pickup in it, which is really the only thing that will work in that configuration. IF for some reason you put a single coil in a PJ, that again would be user error, since the split coil P pickup would not hum cancel the single coil J. That is the rare case of really HAVING to use an HC J pickup, whether you prefer that or not.

So, again, yet another case of IMO attributing noise problems to a single coil design, when that was most likely not the case (or if it was the case, was due to an incorrect use of a single coil pickup.

Again, there are GREAT sounding HC's, and there is no reason not to use them if you love the tone. My only point is, the same thing goes for single coils (when properly installed and used in a two pickup configuration like a J bass).

For clarification, the PJ (Fender) came stock with a single coil J. I usually experienced minimal hum from the J pickup. When the hum became a big problem at specific places, I switched to a Seymour Duncan stack. No more hum. Guitarists using single coil pickups also had problems at the same places I did.

I also used Seymour Duncan stacks in the JJ (Warmoth) from day 1 with no hum ever, even when I solo either pickup.

I might try Dimarzio Area Js or Lindy Fralin Split Js (or something else) in the future. If I ever play consistently at a place with no ongoing electrical problems, I will happily use some quality single coils.

 

[khutch]

In order to cancel hum you have to combine two signals whose hum amplitudes are equal but 180 deg. out of phase. The wiring arrangement should (but not always on cheap J/Js) take care of the phase but if you do not have your two single coil pickups set to the same volume they are not going to cancel hum. If you combine a 100% hum signal with a 20% hum signal, out of phase, you are left with 80% of the original hum. The math really is that simple. If you have a solo pickup 60 Hz interference that goes completely away when you turn up the other pickup 10 or 20% I feel happy for you but it wasn't magnetically induced hum. In fact I don't know what it was.

That said you may find cases where running one pickup at, say, 80% cancels enough of the hum to suit you without unacceptably affecting the single coil tone you were after. Maybe this is not even all that uncommon and that is why single coil pickups are still popular. I'd rather lose the hum completely though and if you want a single coil sound there are HC pickups that approach it close enough as to make no difference.

Ken

 

[nad]

Single coils. I love 60 cycle hum.

 

[walterw]

Ha! That's like saying you drink because you love the hangover.

 

[12bass]

Hum is fine... I just wish they would change the frequency to something that wasn't between notes so I could drone along. A half-flat B doesn't go with anything....