Hypothesis : replace my SVT stack and small combo by a single medium amp… but what?

[Inconnu]

Hi!

This idea crosses my mind quite often and I thought Why don’t I discuss the idea with fellow bass players on Talkbass?
So here I am!

Here’s the story:
I own an Ampeg SVT classic with an 8x10 cab. Made in USA. I bought it new in 1995. I clearly never needed that kind of power, even in my metal band at the time, but it was my dream amp and I went for it. I use it for a clean sound, I don’t overdrive the power tubes (I literally can’t use it at that kind of volume) and I use pedals for overdrive. The SVT as been used strictly at home for the past 20 years. Too big to carry around, unnecessary power. Since then, I’ve went from combo to combo as a secondary, easy to carry, amp. I’ve settled with a Traynor SB112 and I’m totally happy with it. Preceded by a little tube preamp and with a tube overdrive pedal I switch on when needed, it feels I have a great sound for jamming with other people and the power is sufficient. But…

I sometimes feel I could do better if I sell both amps and get a medium sized stack that would still have the mojo of the SVT in a more portable package. Maybe an all tube head (the Traynor YBA100 perhaps, if it gets loud enough compared to the SB112… or something else, but light) and a light, easy to carry cab (a 2x12, or a 2x10, or two 1x12s? punch over rumble). I’m hoping for a sound as full as the SVT sounds, but not as loud.

So I’m looking for shared experience of people who made that kind of move and for inspiration on what amps and cabs I should look into.

I’m really not sure if I want to do this, but I have to get to the bottom of the idea.

Thanks!

 

[gtirard]

I would do it if I were you. I would look for a head + cab, not a combo.

One obvious option is a lightweight class D amp + modern efficient 212 cab.
Many options available to keep the "guts, oompf, authority etc" of the big rig in a smaller and more portable one: Mesa is obviously, many others. I would personaly choose a Barefaced 2x12 or GR Bass cab and a Mesa, Quilter or Bergantino head. You can get a great 212 rig for a total weight of 15 Kg.

If you really need the feeling of tubes, you can add a tube preamp. Many options available too.

And if you are allergic to class D amps, some modern 100W full tube heads are now available under 10 kg. With a good cab, a 100W tube head can be enough for most gigs, and you can get away with a full rig under 20 Kg, easy to move. Even an Ampeg PF-50T can be loud enough for gigs if you use a very efficient cab...

Many options, and many parameters too. Do you want a zero cost swap or can you afford to pay extra budget? What size and weight do you consider easy to move? What SPL do you think you need for a gig?

 

[Inconnu]

I would do it if I were you. I would look for a head + cab, not a combo.

One obvious option is a lightweight class D amp + modern efficient 212 cab.
Many options available to keep the "guts, oompf, authority etc" of the big rig in a smaller and more portable one: Mesa is obviously, many others. I would personaly choose a Barefaced 2x12 or GR Bass cab and a Mesa, Quilter or Bergantino head. You can get a great 212 rig for a total weight of 15 Kg.

If you really need the feeling of tubes, you can add a tube preamp. Many options available too.

And if you are allergic to class D amps, some modern 100W full tube heads are now available under 10 kg. With a good cab, a 100W tube head can be enough for most gigs, and you can get away with a full rig under 20 Kg, easy to move. Even an Ampeg PF-50T can be loud enough for gigs if you use a very efficient cab...

Many options, and many parameters too. Do you want a zero cost swap or can you afford to pay extra budget? What size and weight do you consider easy to move? What SPL do you think you need for a gig?

Bonjour!
Effectivement, il y a beaucoup d’options.

I really like the full sound of the SVT, which is hard to explain, but a lot of people know what I’m referring to.

In terms of needs, right now, the 1x12 200 watts combo I use is sufficient, but I want to keep the door opened for a bit more power. I don’t gig at the present moment, I’m in a creative phase with my band and we intend to do only original material no matter what, so gigging will have to wait but… I want the flexibility to accommodate small venues.

In terms of weight, I’d aim at cabs under 20 kg or 45 pounds. More on the punchy side in terms of sound.

 

[Aussie Player]

Hi!

This idea crosses my mind quite often and I thought Why don’t I discuss the idea with fellow bass players on Talkbass?
So here I am!

Here’s the story:
I own an Ampeg SVT classic with an 8x10 cab. Made in USA. I bought it new in 1995. I clearly never needed that kind of power, even in my metal band at the time, but it was my dream amp and I went for it. I use it for a clean sound, I don’t overdrive the power tubes (I literally can’t use it at that kind of volume) and I use pedals for overdrive. The SVT as been used strictly at home for the past 20 years. Too big to carry around, unnecessary power. Since then, I’ve went from combo to combo as a secondary, easy to carry, amp. I’ve settled with a Traynor SB112 and I’m totally happy with it. Preceded by a little tube preamp and with a tube overdrive pedal I switch on when needed, it feels I have a great sound for jamming with other people and the power is sufficient. But…

I sometimes feel I could do better if I sell both amps and get a medium sized stack that would still have the mojo of the SVT in a more portable package. Maybe an all tube head (the Traynor YBA100 perhaps, if it gets loud enough compared to the SB112… or something else, but light) and a light, easy to carry cab (a 2x12, or a 2x10, or two 1x12s? punch over rumble). I’m hoping for a sound as full as the SVT sounds, but not as loud.

So I’m looking for shared experience of people who made that kind of move and for inspiration on what amps and cabs I should look into.

I’m really not sure if I want to do this, but I have to get to the bottom of the idea.

Thanks!

If there is a perfect medium rig in today's market I would suggest a Fender SuperBassman 300W into their 500W 4x10 cab. Clean and neat looking little amp that doesn't compromise on tone and has enough power for outside gigs.

 

[Dave W]

When tasked with the same question:

I ended up with a pair of Barefaced Two10S cabs and use a variety of heads with them.
If you want to stay with tubes and get really close to an SVT tone, the Ampeg V4B-RI is excellent. I've got one and use it interchangeably with my SVT depending on the venue. It's half the weight and sounds great. Not exact SVT tone, but close enough for gov't work.
If you want to move to something smaller/lighter, the Mesa WD800 does the job nicely. Again, not SVT tone but it's still great tone nonetheless.

I pick my amp based on the venue and what bass I want to play that night. Do I have a big space to fill? Do I want OD? Do I want to travel light that night? Vintage output bass?
The WD800 can cover them all, but it's not an SVT

 

[Murch]

One way to help decide would be to rent some gear from Long & McQuade. Try out a Traynor YBA100 and one or two Traynor 1x15 Neo cabs. The neo 1x15 cabs weigh in at 39 pounds.

 

[henryjurstin13]

I used to gig a SVT-CL/SVT810... loved it. Hated moving it by myself in weird locations/stairs/etc... My rig went in the following order:
SVT-CL /SVT-810
SVT-CL / SVT410HLF
Markbass LMT800 (with Tech21 VT Bass) / SVT410HLF
Markbass LMT800 (with Tech21 VT Bass) / Markbass NY121 (two cabs)
Aguilar TH500 / Markbass NY121 (two cabs)

I've had the big iron, and it's glorious. But, heavy. Dealing with the weight is all dependent on your own personal health, gig locations, storage, transportation, etc.... I needed smaller/easier load-ins. Tech21 VT was giving me loads of Ampeg SVT tones with the Markbass. For me, at that point in time, I valued the ease of load in over the glorious weight of the SVT tubes. I've since picked up a Tone Hammer 500 which will NOT require the VT Bass preamp pedal... it'll do Ampeg type tones in spades (as well as very clean tones too).

Try as much as you can get your hands on, literally plug up every possible amp option you have access to. I just compared the Darkglass MT500 v2 to the Aguilar TH500, and for me - the Aguilar was a clear winner. If I were to guide you in any direction, I'd say a Tone Hammer 500 & a quality 2x12 will make you happy. But, you might want to sit that 2x12 a lil higher in the air, so you eyes think you are still playing a big 8x10.

 

[Inconnu]

One way to help decide would be to rent some gear from Long & McQuade. Try out a Traynor YBA100 and one or two Traynor 1x15 Neo cabs. The neo 1x15 cabs weigh in at 39 pounds.

Yeah, good idea. Not sure about the 1x15 though. I’ll see!

 

[Pilgrim]

I'd say the solution is a Genzler Class D amp and a nice 2x12 lightweight cab.

 

[Masbutch]

I have a few different options when I don’t want to use my svt-vr and 810 and they all for the most part give me a similar sound.
Svt vr with a 212av or I’ll use my pf-50t and 210av. I’ve also used a v4b in the past and I would highly recommend that head

 

[Inconnu]

I used to gig a SVT-CL/SVT810... loved it. Hated moving it by myself in weird locations/stairs/etc... My rig went in the following order:
SVT-CL /SVT-810
SVT-CL / SVT410HLF
Markbass LMT800 (with Tech21 VT Bass) / SVT410HLF
Markbass LMT800 (with Tech21 VT Bass) / Markbass NY121 (two cabs)
Aguilar TH500 / Markbass NY121 (two cabs)

I've had the big iron, and it's glorious. But, heavy. Dealing with the weight is all dependent on your own personal health, gig locations, storage, transportation, etc.... I needed smaller/easier load-ins. Tech21 VT was giving me loads of Ampeg SVT tones with the Markbass. For me, at that point in time, I valued the ease of load in over the glorious weight of the SVT tubes. I've since picked up a Tone Hammer 500 which will NOT require the VT Bass preamp pedal... it'll do Ampeg type tones in spades (as well as very clean tones too).

Try as much as you can get your hands on, literally plug up every possible amp option you have access to. I just compared the Darkglass MT500 v2 to the Aguilar TH500, and for me - the Aguilar was a clear winner. If I were to guide you in any direction, I'd say a Tone Hammer 500 & a quality 2x12 will make you happy. But, you might want to sit that 2x12 a lil higher in the air, so you eyes think you are still playing a big 8x10.

I hadn’t thought about the Aguilar, thanks! For my needs, I even think the TH350 would be enough!

 

[_Some Dude]

If it's the 810 that's the issue and not the head itself, consider putting the SVT a 212.

 

[Wasnex]

I suggest trying out as may amps and cabs as you can.

If you want new, try Aguilar Tone Hammer. If you can accept previously loved, try Genz Benz Streamliner.

The 810E is one of the most heavily voice cabs you can buy. It lacks transparency, so IMHO you are hearing way more of the cab's personality than the SVT's.

If you love the sound, the 212AV is supposed to be voiced similar to the 810E, and weighs 53% less.

Keep in mind that volume comes from a combination of power and the cab sensitivity rating.

An SVT is rated 300W. The decibel change produced by increasing the power from 1-300 watts is Log(300/1) x 10 = 24.8dB. The 810E has a 100dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating. So if you feed it 300W, the calculated SPL is 24.8 + 100 = 124.8dB

The 212AV has a 99dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating. So with 300W you get 123.8.

A V4B reissue is rated at 100W. Log(100/1) x 10 = 20dB.

So with an 810E you get 120dB and with a 212AV you get 119dB.

IMHO that is a pretty noticeable loss in headroom. Maybe the V4 would work for you, but I would want more power, especially if it was going to be my only amp. I seem to be happy with a rig that can hit about 124dB. I don't necessarily need to play that loud, but I do prefer to have the capability readily available.

Another solution would be to use a more efficient speaker setup.

For example, a pair of 212AVs will be approximately 3dB more efficient, so the combined sensitivity rating would be 99 + 3 = 102dB 1W/1m. With 100W the SPL would be 122dB.

The combined load of a pair of 212AV is 2 ohms, and the V4B is rated for 2, 4, and 8 ohms, so it can push a pair of 212AVs when you expect to need the max volume. Still a very large and heavy rig.

What you should do depends on your tolerance for heavy equipment and your tone goals. Maybe buying a single 212AV and running the SVT would be the best choice. Or maybe a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 with a much lighter cab would better suit your needs.

If you are not in a hurry, then seek out every opportunity to play gear so you can form your own opinions.

 

[beans-on-toast]

I find that an 810 is easier to load into my vehicle that smaller cabs. The length provides a fulcrum point to lean against the door and then the bottom is lifted and pushed in. Smaller cabs such as a 410 need to be lifted which is harder.

The head is another story. I use a plywood ramp to push the ATA case up. But lifting just the head from the ground into the vehicle is too much for me to do alone at my age. I have to have help to move the head, case or not.

 

[InhumanResource]

Hi!

This idea crosses my mind quite often and I thought Why don’t I discuss the idea with fellow bass players on Talkbass?
So here I am!

Here’s the story:
I own an Ampeg SVT classic with an 8x10 cab. Made in USA. I bought it new in 1995. I clearly never needed that kind of power, even in my metal band at the time, but it was my dream amp and I went for it. I use it for a clean sound, I don’t overdrive the power tubes (I literally can’t use it at that kind of volume) and I use pedals for overdrive. The SVT as been used strictly at home for the past 20 years. Too big to carry around, unnecessary power. Since then, I’ve went from combo to combo as a secondary, easy to carry, amp. I’ve settled with a Traynor SB112 and I’m totally happy with it. Preceded by a little tube preamp and with a tube overdrive pedal I switch on when needed, it feels I have a great sound for jamming with other people and the power is sufficient. But…

I sometimes feel I could do better if I sell both amps and get a medium sized stack that would still have the mojo of the SVT in a more portable package. Maybe an all tube head (the Traynor YBA100 perhaps, if it gets loud enough compared to the SB112… or something else, but light) and a light, easy to carry cab (a 2x12, or a 2x10, or two 1x12s? punch over rumble). I’m hoping for a sound as full as the SVT sounds, but not as loud.

So I’m looking for shared experience of people who made that kind of move and for inspiration on what amps and cabs I should look into.

I’m really not sure if I want to do this, but I have to get to the bottom of the idea.

Thanks!

I did this exact thing and went with a GK MB212. I never play without a PA anymore, and this thing is loud enough to work for a smaller gig if necessary.

I also decided to go from a Fender+Ampeg lots of mid grunt tone to G&L+GK modern, very crunchy tone so it was a stylistic choice too. The amp itself is a light carry (2 hands for me) and fits in the trunk of a comfy sedan, so load in is easy and so is the drive.

 

[waveman]

I would get 2 2x10's. Take one 2x10 when you only would use a combo, take the other 2x10 and vertical stack to get that 8x10 fridge feel. This is in fact what I do most of the time. Have Markbass LMIII head, and a few others for when I feel like something a little different. But get at least 500w head for primary head to have proper clean head room.

Either way think modular

 

[Bring The Bass]

Faced a similar dilemma, we'll sort of, when I decided it was time to downsize from my SWR setup. (2×10 Goliath II Jr on top of a 1x18 Big Ben) Powered them with an Ampeg rackmounted SVT Pro III. Sounded great but got to be a pain lugging for gigs. Enter the Mesa Subway line. So far have the 1×15 cab and the WD800 head. Got it rackmounted in a Calzone case so it's more than roadworthy. Just waiting on a backordered 2×10 cabinet and my setup is complete. Sounds amazing. Pricey, but worth every penny.

 

[henryjurstin13]

I would get 2 2x10's. Take one 2x10 when you only would use a combo, take the other 2x10 and vertical stack to get that 8x10 fridge feel. This is in fact what I do most of the time. Have Markbass LMIII head, and a few others for when I feel like something a little different. But get at least 500w head for primary head to have proper clean head room.

Either way think modular

I've gigged (several years ago) an Avatar 2x10 Kappa Pro with that SVT-CL I mentioned.... that 2x10 took that SVT all night long! It was a beast of a 2x10. A pair of those 2x10's stacked vertical could be awesome!!!

Like @Wasnex said, that mojo you are hearing has a lot to do with the 810e. Because I also enjoyed the mojo of the 8x10, I've contemplated putting an 8x10 in my music room just for me to enjoy whenever I have the chance.

 

[andrus108]

If Ampeg decided to release a fridge cab that outside looks just like the 8x10, but instead used four 12 inch neo drivers, they wouldn't be able to make them fast enough.

 

[Chrisk-K]

OP, what is your hypothesis?