I Can't Play Piano

[DrummerwStrings]

I can play piano very well; sell them, not so much.

My problem is that while I admire latter-day 'smooth jazz' and the like, what I would really like to learn is the stuff from the 40's through the 60's, and almost always these were cut with upright bass and often, as Will Lee once remarked of those classic recordings, the 'bass is more felt than heard'. It's almost impossible for me to pick out the bass lines.

I'd have to investigate for modern recordings of those classics. That was why I instantly glommed onto the Natalie Cole recordings where she revisited her Dad's classics and others from in-period: I could hear everything.

I'd have to admit I'm virtually, totally ignorant when it comes to jazz, and it pains me to say so.

I'm surprised Ken Burns' documentary "Jazz" hasn't been mentioned here yet. It's an excellent primer, especially on the roots of Jazz & how it has changed over time (hint: Jazz, Rock n' Roll, it's all the Blues). I think the strength of the documentary (some critics don't agree) is using the biographies of several key musicians as a hook to the music - prime example is Louis Armstrong & how Pop's influence cannot be overemphasized. Every city he moved to, Jazz flourished. Critics have pointed out shortcomings of the documentary, but I thoroughly enjoyed it, learned quite a bit, & watched some episodes more than once.

From it's beginning till Bebop, Jazz was dance music, yet many people think Jazz is goateed guys in turtlenecks enthusiastically talking about a Free Form racquet of dissonance. Ken Burn's Jazz is a worthwhile way to go deeper than the mind's eye image, & will provide plenty of leads you'll want to check out without feeling overwhelmed by the subject.

BTW, I have less piano skills than the OP. I bought a decent, used electronic keyboard for about $30 & a workbook to do something about it. I haven't plugged it in recently, but i don't beat myself up about it - I have a full plate, & learning Music is not a sprint.

 

[brianrost]

 

[DrummerwStrings]

I thought the first video was funny. Quite a good perspective.

I like a lot of jazz ('er indoors HATES it), but some of the weirder stuff (Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane etc.) I don't get at all.

BTW/FWIW I don't play piano at all, but I put a MIDI controller on my guitar, so now I do!

In case anyone hasn't heard, try dipping your toe in Coltrane's discography with "John Coltrane & Johnny Hartman". Try this version of "Lush Life":



Here's a track worth listening to once:



My Favorite Things, John Coltrane.

 

[Pings Bass]

I knew that, I was just curious. I mean The Yellow Jackets are not Kenny G, but still...

I was honestly just curious. If you think it's Fuzack it won't inhibit my enjoyment, honest!

It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I dislike many things that others love, like samba, Irish music, rock music, fantasy adventure, video games, whisky, milk in my coffee, small talk, French food, and hoppy beer. Nobody needs my approval to enjoy any of those things.

 

[DrummerwStrings]

*deep breath*

I have never listened to Jaco play for more than 30 seconds at a stretch, and I can't fathom why anyone would want to (but I don't judge them).

Gotcha. I don't spend a lot of time listening to Jack either. In case you haven't heard "Portrait of Tracy", I think it's worth a listen.

 

[HolmeBass]

It's not my cup of tea, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I dislike many things that others love, like samba, Irish music, rock music, fantasy adventure, video games, whisky, milk in my coffee, small talk, French food, and hoppy beer. Nobody needs my approval to enjoy any of those things.

You are correct, I do not need your approval.

I also didn't ask if you liked them, right? I asked if you consider their music Jazz.

Some might imply your answer as saying you like ALL Jazz music, which to me would be weird. I love reggae, but not every last reggae song or band I've ever heard.

It's cool if you don't want to go on record calling it "not Jazz".

 

[DrummerwStrings]

this reminds me of a comment I've heard Victor Wooten make several times along the lines of (paraphrasing) 'there are 11 notes between the root and the octave, and eight of them are "correct," so your odds of hitting the right one are pretty good.'

I heard Herbie Hancock tell a story about Miles Davis. Herbie was playing a piano solo & he ended it on a totally wrong note - he was laughing about it now - but he said there was no redeeming it, it was a clam. Miles looked surprised, & he was next to solo. Miles used the wrong note in his solo & tied it in with the song, he made it work.

 

[Dabndug]

I find my enjoyment of complex live jazz solos is enhanced if I yell "Yeah" every 11th or 13th beat (whether I'm in the audience or in the band).

 

[Ostie]

I come from a long line of Jazz drummers. My step father, and an uncle. They turned me on to Oscar Peterson, Chuck Mangione, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, etc. I can appreciate it, but I can't play it. If I hadn't been a bass player (and mandolin) I probably would have been a drummer. Probably not a Jazz drummer, though….

 

[Pings Bass]

You are correct, I do not need your approval.

I also didn't ask if you liked them, right? I asked if you consider their music Jazz.

Some might imply your answer as saying you like ALL Jazz music, which to me would be weird. I love reggae, but not every last reggae song or band I've ever heard.

It's cool if you don't want to go on record calling it "not Jazz".

OK, for the record: I've never considered that kind of music jazz. But I'm not a gatekeeper. I'm not mad if people call it jazz. There's no point trying to make the term exclusive to acoustic music made in the swing, bebob, cool, and hard bop eras of Black American music, as much as I prefer those styles.

I'll refer again to the Nicholas Payton take:

There is no such thing as jazz, and any idea of what that might be is false. It's impossible to build a tradition upon something that was never a designed to be a true expression of a community. The very existence of jazz is predicated upon a lie, just like racism.​

 

[PillO]

 

[JRA]

 

[mambo4]

It takes a True Scotsman to discern Real Jazz.

 

[HolmeBass]

OK, for the record: I've never considered that kind of music jazz. But I'm not a gatekeeper. I'm not mad if people call it jazz. There's no point trying to make the term exclusive to acoustic music made in the swing, bebob, cool, and hard bop eras of Black American music, as much as I prefer those styles.

I'll refer again to the Nicholas Payton take:

There is no such thing as jazz, and any idea of what that might be is false. It's impossible to build a tradition upon something that was never a designed to be a true expression of a community. The very existence of jazz is predicated upon a lie, just like racism.​

Cool, thank you for the link.

No one is a gatekeeper, whether they want to be or not. I was interested in your opinion because of what you said in an early post:

"About 90% of the time I hear someone talking about "jazz," I find out they're talking about something other than what I'm thinking of when I hear the word."

 

[kevindahl]

Having gone to school and studied the genre I don't mind it. Big band and cool jazz would be my favorites.

My ears are not good enough to understand and or appreciate the more complicated music. I can't even tell you where the A section ends or where the I chord lands. As a bass player I need to where the I chord is, always.

 

[ThudThudThud]

A bunch of accordions falling down the stairs of a lighthouse.

 

[two fingers]

I also can't play piano. and I didn't understand the video. maybe it's a great performance in post-modern sense, but I wouldn't consider this jazz. jazz is somewhat academic in modern world, it's not like any punk can play whatever he likes and call it jazz.

to me it doesn't sound like a jazz piano even in the jazz subgenres I don't like and there're plenty of them. on the positive side there're lots of jazz music that I like. give me some Chick Corea. or Jacques Loussier.

because it's obvious: the guy cannot play the piano. and he's not making a secret of it

The video was done by a comedian. He LITERALLY doesn't play piano. But he hired a serious trio to back him up and literally banged random notes on the piano. He made a double- length album and did a concert tour based around it.


Hilarious.....

 

[Pings Bass]

Cool, thank you for the link.

No one is a gatekeeper, whether they want to be or not. I was interested in your opinion because of what you said in an early post:

"About 90% of the time I hear someone talking about "jazz," I find out they're talking about something other than what I'm thinking of when I hear the word."

Yeah, I'm getting over myself in that regard. Thinking of bop and hard bop as Black American music and letting go of the word jazz is a positive step toward more precise language. Nobody's going to think I'm talking about Kenny G if I tell them I like Black American music. And people talking about "jazz" that's not part of that historic lineage can keep on calling it jazz. I see it as a win-win.

 

[J_Bass]

Yeah, I'm getting over myself in that regard. Thinking of bop and hard bop as Black American music and letting go of the word jazz is a positive step toward more precise language. Nobody's going to think I'm talking about Kenny G if I tell them I like Black American music. And people talking about "jazz" that's not part of that historic lineage can keep on calling it jazz. I see it as a win-win.

Why do you feel the need for that?

Also, if you say you like Black American Music, one can think you like Blues, Jazz, Rap, Hip-Hop, Gospel, Soul, Funk, and maybe more genres.

 

[packhowitzer]

So I play bass (and guitar) right-handed. As such my right hand tends to keep time by plucking, picking, strumming - what have you. My left hand tends to do the things that make the notes sound out - the melody if you will.

Wellll.... when I try to play piano, all I can do is play out a rhythm with my right hand and play melodic notes with my left.... which is sort of the opposite of many popular songs. For example, the classic "Heart and Soul". My left hand refuses to keep the rhythm on the low end and my right hand refuses to play the lead bit.

I find trying to swap what my hands are doing about as unintuitive as trying to play bass or guitar left-handed.

That said, as long as my right hand is allowed to bang out a rhythm and my left free to play a melody, I feel as if I can hold my own on a piano. But swapping around is essentially hopeless.

Anyone else experience this frustrating phenomenon? Also, do they make pianos where the low notes start on the right side and get higher the farther left one goes? lol