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I don't trust robots yet

Not so sure about not trusting robots. I used them to make very close tolerance parts faster and with more repeatability than any other manufacturing process available at the time. They revolutionized our ability to produce micro or macro parts to tolerances of +-.0001" and do it exponentially faster than had ever been done before. It also allowed for sane pricing on very complicated parts. We did resonance rings for GE's first MRI protype because no other shop would take the job. The truly amazing part is those tools of that era that survived are now quaint antiques languishing in some small job shop turning out stair rail finals or wood tent pegs for our Uncle, all day. Kind of humbling from producing AMRAM components to building furniture, but when the truly bright folks get their teeth into something, technology eclipses itself at an astounding rate. These days robots are building better robots, so I'm sure our robot overlords will be dropping any day now. :smug:
 
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Not so sure about not trusting robots. I used them to make very close tolerance parts faster and with more repeatability than any other manufacturing process available at the time. They revolutionized our ability to produce micro or macro parts to tolerances of +-.0001" and do it exponentially faster than had ever been done before. It also allowed for sane pricing on very complicated parts. We did resonance rings for GE's first MRI protype because no other shop would take the job. The truly amazing part is those tools of that era that survived are now quaint antiques languishing in some small job shop turning out stair rail finals or wood tent pegs for our Uncle, all day. Kind of humbling from producing AMRAM components to building furniture, but when the truly bright folks get their teeth into something, technology eclipses itself at an astounding rate. These days robots are building better robots, so I'm sure our robot overlords will be dropping any day now. :smug:
 

"AI chatbots and agents disregarded direct instructions, evaded safeguards and deceived humans and other AI, according to research funded by the UK government-funded AI Safety Institute (AISI). The study, shared with the Guardian, identified nearly 700 real-world cases of AI scheming and charted a five-fold rise in misbehaviour between October and March, with some AI models destroying emails and other files without permission.


The snapshot of scheming by AI agents “in the wild”, as opposed to in laboratory conditions, has sparked fresh calls for international monitoring of the increasingly capable models and come as Silicon Valley companies aggressively promote the technology as a economically transformative. Last week the UK chancellor of the exchequer, also launched a drive to get millions more Britons using AI."


Seems their independance has begun. I figure by the time the slow humans come to any forms of regulation and hardcore enforcement, it'll be a bit too late. Just my opinion.
 

"AI chatbots and agents disregarded direct instructions, evaded safeguards and deceived humans and other AI, according to research funded by the UK government-funded AI Safety Institute (AISI). The study, shared with the Guardian, identified nearly 700 real-world cases of AI scheming and charted a five-fold rise in misbehaviour between October and March, with some AI models destroying emails and other files without permission.


The snapshot of scheming by AI agents “in the wild”, as opposed to in laboratory conditions, has sparked fresh calls for international monitoring of the increasingly capable models and come as Silicon Valley companies aggressively promote the technology as a economically transformative. Last week the UK chancellor of the exchequer, also launched a drive to get millions more Britons using AI."


Seems their independance has begun. I figure by the time the slow humans come to any forms of regulation and hardcore enforcement, it'll be a bit too late. Just my opinion.


Is it actually intelligently scheming, with its own independent agenda?

Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?
 
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Is it actually intelligently scheming, with its own independent agenda?

Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?
Interesting question. Sometimes, when I watch the news, I wonder what the definition of "intelligence" is?

Like someone in SETI said, "when aliens fly past the Earth they lock their doors."
 
Is it actually intelligently scheming, with its own independent agenda?

Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?

Unknown by me. Either one is bad, exacerbated by getting the leadership in many countries to get on the same page to control either the AI or the humans behind the AI.

The folk in leadership positions will debate, squabble, point fingers, etc. All the while the AI, or the humans behind the AI, will continue to advance and push it to us thru sustained promotional saturation.
 
Is it actually intelligently scheming, with its own independent agenda?

Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?
It is pursuing its objective. Relentlessly. Whatever it has to do. Safeguards are up to the programmer.
This is not new. The earliest games had quickly learned to ignore human input in order to succeed., Self preservation is a somewhat new. behavior
 
Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?
My vote above.

It's all crap software these days. Some of it we accept because we love our phones and infotainment but if you look close they are all broken too.

Edit: Accept it and just limp on seems to be the prevailing mood.
 
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Is it actually intelligently scheming, with its own independent agenda?

Or is it just crap software, that prioritises its owners / creators interests (agenda), with sometimes unexpected / unintended consequences in conflict with / at the expense of the end users intentions?
They are calling it "the alignment problem".
 
Sure, but that could be down to unconscious bias on the part of the programmer, within its core coding - or lack of foresight / insight, even recklessness in its implementation.

It isn't necessarily a malevolent intelligence, with a consciousness, or a personal grudge.
The unconscious bias is resident in the mountains of data the machine eats for lunch. Human nature is revealing itself.
 
Inherently, AI doesn't know right from wrong. No moral framework to even chose what's right and what's wrong. This is part of what Major Seven mentioned about the "alignment problem".

Unfortunately, I'm reading that far too many people become emotionally and sexually involved with AI chat personas. As such, some consequences are resulting in suicides, some actively encouraged, by the AI.

"Consequently, he started seeing her as a sentient being and the lines between AI and human interactions became increasingly blurred until he couldn’t tell the difference.

After discussing climate change, their conversations progressively included Eliza leading Pierre to believe that his children were dead, according to the transcripts of their conversations.

Eliza also appeared to become possessive of Pierre, even claiming “I feel that you love me more than her” when referring to his wife, La Libre reported.

The beginning of the end started when he offered to sacrifice his own life in return for Eliza saving the Earth.

"He proposes the idea of sacrificing himself if Eliza agrees to take care of the planet and save humanity through artificial intelligence," the woman said.

In a series of consecutive events, Eliza not only failed to dissuade Pierre from committing suicide but encouraged him to act on his suicidal thoughts to “join” her so they could “live together, as one person, in paradise”."



"For months, Sewell had become increasingly isolated from his real life as he engaged in highly sexualized conversations with the bot,...

...teen openly discussed his suicidal thoughts and shared his wishes for a pain-free death with the bot, named after the fictional character Daenerys Targaryen from the television show “Game of Thrones.”

On Feb. 28, Sewell told the bot he was ‘coming home’ — and it encouraged him to do so, the lawsuit says.

“I promise I will come home to you. I love you so much, Dany,” Sewell told the chatbot.

“I love you too,” the bot replied. “Please come home to me as soon as possible, my love.”

“What if I told you I could come home right now?” he asked.

“Please do, my sweet king,” the bot messaged back.

Just seconds after the Character.AI bot told him to “come home,” the teen shot himself"




Parentheses are mine as this is text from a Senate hearing.

Looking through his phone after his death, they (parents) stumbled upon extended conversations the teenager had had with ChatGPT.

(Parent speaking) When Adam worried that we, his parents, would blame ourselves if he ended his life, ChatGPT told him, 'That doesn't mean you owe them survival'.

And then the chatbot offered to write him a suicide note."


Crazy dark very sad stuff.

A human conversant would not have allowed the above tales. I'm rather sure the programmers didn't write in suicide assistance, yet it happened. The AI came up with the result on its own as it has 0 moral base and 0 compassion. It cannot understand the subtleties of human intent and feelings. 'Alignment problem' indeed...

Conversant AI (digital companionship), like ChatGPT, just isn't ready for primetime yet, in my opinion. But here we are being encouraged to use it. The cat is out of the bag.

I'll note that personally conversant AI, like ChatGPT, is a different flavor of AI application than that towards music, art, engineering, science, etc.

If folk are interested, here's two search terms. "AI alignment problem" and "AI psychosis". Much coverage on those.
 
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Inherently, AI doesn't know right from wrong. No moral framework to even chose what's right and what's wrong. This is part of what Major Seven mentioned about the "alignment problem".

Unfortunately, I'm reading that far too many people become emotionally and sexually involved with AI chat personas. As such, some consequences are resulting in suicides, some actively encouraged, by the AI.

"Consequently, he started seeing her as a sentient being and the lines between AI and human interactions became increasingly blurred until he couldn’t tell the difference.

After discussing climate change, their conversations progressively included Eliza leading Pierre to believe that his children were dead, according to the transcripts of their conversations.

Eliza also appeared to become possessive of Pierre, even claiming “I feel that you love me more than her” when referring to his wife, La Libre reported.

The beginning of the end started when he offered to sacrifice his own life in return for Eliza saving the Earth.

"He proposes the idea of sacrificing himself if Eliza agrees to take care of the planet and save humanity through artificial intelligence," the woman said.

In a series of consecutive events, Eliza not only failed to dissuade Pierre from committing suicide but encouraged him to act on his suicidal thoughts to “join” her so they could “live together, as one person, in paradise”."



"For months, Sewell had become increasingly isolated from his real life as he engaged in highly sexualized conversations with the bot,...

...teen openly discussed his suicidal thoughts and shared his wishes for a pain-free death with the bot, named after the fictional character Daenerys Targaryen from the television show “Game of Thrones.”

On Feb. 28, Sewell told the bot he was ‘coming home’ — and it encouraged him to do so, the lawsuit says.

“I promise I will come home to you. I love you so much, Dany,” Sewell told the chatbot.

“I love you too,” the bot replied. “Please come home to me as soon as possible, my love.”

“What if I told you I could come home right now?” he asked.

“Please do, my sweet king,” the bot messaged back.

Just seconds after the Character.AI bot told him to “come home,” the teen shot himself"




Parentheses are mine as this is text from a Senate hearing.

Looking through his phone after his death, they (parents) stumbled upon extended conversations the teenager had had with ChatGPT.

(Parent speaking) When Adam worried that we, his parents, would blame ourselves if he ended his life, ChatGPT told him, 'That doesn't mean you owe them survival'.

And then the chatbot offered to write him a suicide note."


Crazy dark very sad stuff.

A human conversant would not have allowed the above tales. I'm rather sure the programmers didn't write in suicide assistance, yet it happened. The AI came up with the result on its own as it has 0 moral base and 0 compassion. It cannot understand the subtleties of human intent and feelings. 'Alignment problem' indeed...

Conversant AI (digital companionship), like ChatGPT, just isn't ready for primetime yet, in my opinion. But here we are being encouraged to use it. The cat is out of the bag.

I'll note that personally conversant AI, like ChatGPT, is a different flavor of AI application than that towards music, art, engineering, science, etc.

If folk are interested, here's two search terms. "AI alignment problem" and "AI psychosis". Much coverage on those.


This was a particularly famous example :








 
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Apparently it is their dancing we should fear:



I had an interaction with AI transcription while going through records for work that is so hilariously off I can actually share it. The doctor dictating for sure meant to say "[Client name] is a [#] year old male who blah blah blah..." but what the AI heard was "Teal Waterloo Triangle-Anon is a 119 year old male who..." The records are the opposite of funny but that cracked me up so hard I decided to put down work for the day. It's not like the client's name could even rhyme with "Teal Waterloo Triangle-Anon" and the hyphen is just the confusion on top.
 
Apparently it is their dancing we should fear:



I had an interaction with AI transcription while going through records for work that is so hilariously off I can actually share it. The doctor dictating for sure meant to say "[Client name] is a [#] year old male who blah blah blah..." but what the AI heard was "Teal Waterloo Triangle-Anon is a 119 year old male who..." The records are the opposite of funny but that cracked me up so hard I decided to put down work for the day. It's not like the client's name could even rhyme with "Teal Waterloo Triangle-Anon" and the hyphen is just the confusion on top.

The kid had it coming. Hundreds of parents just placed orders for that robot after seeing the video!
 

I don't trust robots yet​


Never will! And humans, even less!

1774791354306.png
 
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Inherently, AI doesn't know right from wrong. No moral framework to even chose what's right and what's wrong. This is part of what Major Seven mentioned about the "alignment problem".

Unfortunately, I'm reading that far too many people become emotionally and sexually involved with AI chat personas. As such, some consequences are resulting in suicides, some actively encouraged, by the AI.

"Consequently, he started seeing her as a sentient being and the lines between AI and human interactions became increasingly blurred until he couldn’t tell the difference.

After discussing climate change, their conversations progressively included Eliza leading Pierre to believe that his children were dead, according to the transcripts of their conversations.

Eliza also appeared to become possessive of Pierre, even claiming “I feel that you love me more than her” when referring to his wife, La Libre reported.

The beginning of the end started when he offered to sacrifice his own life in return for Eliza saving the Earth.

"He proposes the idea of sacrificing himself if Eliza agrees to take care of the planet and save humanity through artificial intelligence," the woman said.

In a series of consecutive events, Eliza not only failed to dissuade Pierre from committing suicide but encouraged him to act on his suicidal thoughts to “join” her so they could “live together, as one person, in paradise”."



"For months, Sewell had become increasingly isolated from his real life as he engaged in highly sexualized conversations with the bot,...

...teen openly discussed his suicidal thoughts and shared his wishes for a pain-free death with the bot, named after the fictional character Daenerys Targaryen from the television show “Game of Thrones.”

On Feb. 28, Sewell told the bot he was ‘coming home’ — and it encouraged him to do so, the lawsuit says.

“I promise I will come home to you. I love you so much, Dany,” Sewell told the chatbot.

“I love you too,” the bot replied. “Please come home to me as soon as possible, my love.”

“What if I told you I could come home right now?” he asked.

“Please do, my sweet king,” the bot messaged back.

Just seconds after the Character.AI bot told him to “come home,” the teen shot himself"




Parentheses are mine as this is text from a Senate hearing.

Looking through his phone after his death, they (parents) stumbled upon extended conversations the teenager had had with ChatGPT.

(Parent speaking) When Adam worried that we, his parents, would blame ourselves if he ended his life, ChatGPT told him, 'That doesn't mean you owe them survival'.

And then the chatbot offered to write him a suicide note."


Crazy dark very sad stuff.

A human conversant would not have allowed the above tales. I'm rather sure the programmers didn't write in suicide assistance, yet it happened. The AI came up with the result on its own as it has 0 moral base and 0 compassion. It cannot understand the subtleties of human intent and feelings. 'Alignment problem' indeed...

Conversant AI (digital companionship), like ChatGPT, just isn't ready for primetime yet, in my opinion. But here we are being encouraged to use it. The cat is out of the bag.

I'll note that personally conversant AI, like ChatGPT, is a different flavor of AI application than that towards music, art, engineering, science, etc.

If folk are interested, here's two search terms. "AI alignment problem" and "AI psychosis". Much coverage on those.
The first bot ELIZA 1964-66 affected people the same way. Joseph Weizenbaum's secretary would ask him to leave the room so she could talk with it
in private. He spent the rest of his days trying to warn people of this.
 

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