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I Feel Like A Dinosaur

#161
40Hz said:
At least one of my few favorite new bands is still as fresh as a daisy to my ears. Check out Snarky Puppy if anybody hasn't heard them yet. Bassist and Composer/BL Michael League is an amazing musician. And the ensemble is one of the best things to come along in a very long time.
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They're great but not quite new - they formed in 2004, which is a sad testament to how long great artists can labor in obscurity.

Check out Noel Johnston, another UNT player who was with Snarky Puppy early on. He released an amazing rock-jazz thing called "Salted Coffee" a year or two ago. I met him when we were on the same gig with a wind ensemble in Dallas a while back. Noel is a great guy and an astounding player.
 
#162
Altitude said:
They're great but not quite new - they formed in 2004, which is a sad testament to how long great artists can labor in obscurity.

Check out Noel Johnston, another UNT player who was with Snarky Puppy early on. He released an amazing rock-jazz thing called "Salted Coffee" a year or two ago. I met him when we were on the same gig with a wind ensemble in Dallas a while back. Noel is a great guy and an astounding player.
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New enough. Or at least new enough for me. With 61 years under my belt, 12 years doesn't seem that long any more. :laugh:

As far as laboring in obscurity, that happens. Unfortunately, art is more a luxury product than a necessity. And most people are all for art, as long as they don't have to pay or do anything to enjoy it. Like an acquaintance of mine's son recently informed me: "Nobody should have to pay for music. That's just stupid."

I didn't even bother to argue or try to explain. Not my zoo. Not my little jackal. :thumbsup:
 
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#163
40Hz said:
View attachment 990086

Problem? Contrast that with young dudes around here when they're bitching about the old dude music and Graystock. :laugh:

At least the old dudes tend to be more polite about it. I'm waiting for somebody younger to show up on this thread and start screaming. Or asking a moderator to shut the thread down because it's "getting political." :wideyed:

That can be a problem. Because you really can't discuss the music of the "old guy" era without discussing the politics of that era as well. Politics was what drove about 90% of it. :cool:

But "politics" wasn't the dirty word it's become today. Or considered an unacceptable topic like now. Intelligent people and grownups expected to be able to discuss political and uncomfortable topics. P.C. (along with the IBM PC :laugh:) hadn't been invented yet.

Like I said, it's a different world. :rolleyes:
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For perspective's sake, I'm 53--definitely more old than young. I've seen a lot more kvetching about new music than old on TB, the Graystock/Oldchella threads notwithstanding. Apparently, the mods concluded they'd seen enough of it at least six years ago: Ranting about modern music - please reconsider.

As for politeness, I disagree that the old guys have displayed more of it. Check just about any thread about rap, for example.

IMO, politics drove popular music for a fairly short period--about 1965 to 1971 (when What's Going On came out). After that, political messages seem to have tailed off, probably because "rock" was big business by then, the artists were getting older, and the audience seemed to turn to heavier drugs. It was only when punk broke out in the late '70s that political songs bubbled up again, and in the US punk was strictly limited to the underground and pretty much kept off the commercial FM airwaves. The Boomers, who now ran the record companies, didn't wanna hear none of that rabble-rousng stuff.;)
 
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#165
GregC said:
For perspective's sake, I'm 53--definitely more old than young. I've seen a lot more kvetching about new music than old on TB, the Graystock/Oldchella threads notwithstanding. Apparently, the mods concluded they'd seen enough of it at least six years ago: Ranting about modern music - please reconsider.

As for politeness, I disagree that the old guys have displayed more of it. Check just about any thread about rap, for example.

IMO, politics drove popular music for a fairly short period--about 1965 to 1971 (when What's Going On came out). After that, political messages seem to have tailed off, probably because "rock" was big business by then, the artists were getting older, and the audience seemed to turn to heavier drugs. It was only when punk broke out in the late '70s that political songs bubbled up again, and in the US punk was strictly limited to the underground and pretty much kept off the commercial FM airwaves. The Boomers, who now ran the record companies, didn't wanna hear none of that rabble-rousng stuff.;)
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I guess we each see it from our own perspective. You're missing the folk movement (mid '50s to mid '60s) and the influence of Motown. Because while FM was an important communication vector for one US demographic, vague FCC rules (and many licensed FM station's narrow and nervous interpretations of them) kept the much of what was referred to as "protest music" off the air. The song Eve of Destruction being one of the better known examples. So a large amount of the most pointed stuff was found in performances in "coffee shops" and clubs - or passed around on cassette tapes - rather than aired.

Regarding rap, the biggest objections from my fellow old guy musicians that I heard (and agreed with) when it first came out was the cookie-cutter approach some it it employed using sound snippits cut/"borrowed" from other songs (although I suppose you could argue it was no different than musique concréte) and the sing-song vocals and lack of a traditional melody line. That and the presence of two turntables being referred to as musical instruments. The criticisms of the language, misogyny, and reverse racism in many of the songs came later. When it first came out, the musicians I knew basically didn't like the way it sounded. "It's all beat and no melody" was how we characterized it. But whatever. Rap found its audience, so its all good.

As far as music becoming big business, that played a role. But the country was also tired. Nixon was gone and we were finally out of Viet Nam (a war that tore this country's entire social fabric to shreds) and the economy was having major problems with inflation. And the ol' USA decided it needed a break. And then along came the bicentennial. And rather than use that as an opportunity to do a serious reassessment and some reflection, we chose instead to slap ourselves on the back over how great we are, and throw a year long party instead. "Noble causes no longer become us." as the saying went. Then along came disco, Regan, and the whole yuppie bit, and the US mindset shifted direction yet again. Or so it seemed to me from my ground level east coast perspective.

End of the day, it's where you were (and how old) when it was happening. So there will be different perspectives and interpretations. We're all in the same boat as those seven blindmen describing an elephant when it comes to history. :laugh:

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!
 
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#166
aprod said:
DJs are not musicians. They steal others material and "remix" into something they call their own. I agree with the previous post that EDM creates an ambience, a mood. But people still are engaged when they see a talented musician. You know you are on your game when people shut up and start really listening to the music. Its just not that entertaining do watch some guy with a globe on his head fist pumping. There is no substitution for real musicians playing live music.
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This is considered to be the first sampling and done by a classical composer ...
 
#168
I don't think current new music sucks. I think the delivery system is different. Whatever you want, it's out there - you just have to go find it. The record labels are so totally risk-averse that they are only going to feed us a certain flavor of light beer, guaranteed to sell in modest but profitable quantity.

This thread has avoided becoming a referendum on streaming, oddly. I happen to be a fan of Spotify and Apple Music, so long as people are paying the subscription fees. I get that the revenue per play is comically low. So, however, is the capital outlay for the artists to take advantage of a distribution network with no boundaries. These services are amazingly good at recommending to me artists I have never heard of but often like. I discovered Manchester Orchestra, Silversun Pickups, Pineapple Thief, and countless amazing jazz artists all because Spotify got the idea I would like them.

I have boxes full of my own bands' CDs in my basement. I spent thousands of dollars on initial pressings of these CDs so we could sell them as merch at our shows. They will wind up in the dumper at some point. For $35, I put each album on all the streaming services and now someone reading this can go listen to any of it, whether you live in Denver or in Slovakia, India, or anywhere else. Convince me that isn't progress.

Music is great right now, but it takes a little more effort than it used to, when we all waited patiently for the world premiere of the newest Def Leppard video.
 
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#169
markjazzbassist said:
To be honest doc neither of those records are that great. Check out Robert glasper experiment black radio 1 or 2 for better hodge stuff (his solo stuff is a bore).

There's plenty of live actual musicians playing on records types of records out there, just gotta find them.

I do agree though I don't like the programmed stuff where it's only got like vocal synth drum machine and a pad.
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I have Robert Glasper's Black Radio album. I like the Solange album but I know some were not impressed.
 
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#170
I tend to listen to really old music, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Django Reinhardt...

if you analyze some of these old songs you will see why they are so good. When you compare them to modern songs you wonder why today's composers write such boring stuff. One of my groups jams to Since You Were Gone, written in 1917. I don't think anything on the airwaves today will be around in 2116.
 
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#171
Dr. Cheese said:
I have Robert Glasper's Black Radio album.
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I have several of Glasper's and saw him last Spring. Some other current artists I admire are Snarky Puppy, Lalah Hathaway, Chris Thiele/Punch Brothers, Sara Jarosz, John Mayer (if he would quit dating movie stars and get real again). There are some great artists out there but generally not on the mainstream pop radio. That is full of nonsense.
 
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#173
Anyone who was involved in (or otherwise has a perspective on) the popular music of the 20th century can hardly escape the impression that things have been dumbed down to a strained degree these days. Traditional sensibilities of great songwriting, both musically and lyrically, seem to have gone down the drain, replaced by monotony, crass self-assertion, braggadocio and even aggression. Basic reflectional nuances of expression, such as humor, irony, wistfulness, melancholy, and reminiscence itself, appear largely dysfunctional in this millennium. The now is all.

What used to be "rock" proliferated into a myriad of narrow sub-genres of some "metal" variety, most of which center on personal instrumental virtuosity, quasi-heroic egoist mythologies based on half-baked philosophical or occultist notions, and a general angsty defaitism against humanity. MTV was sold and promptly turned into a channel plugging misogynist gangsta rap, spurious "glamour" R&B and unfathomable award galas. Crossover country is the one genre that retains some elements of what used to make for good pop music, like the combination of savvy chord progressions and cohesive, meaningful lyrics.

On the other foot, sound technology is richer and more diverse than ever. It's just the content that is mostly missing. For the kind of substance I'm talking about I find myself going back to '30s/'40s calypso, old delta blues, Hoagy Carmichael, Cole Porter, things like that. But I do like e.g. Snarky Puppy for what they do instrumentally, and am listening out.
 
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#174
cdef said:
Anyone who was involved in (or otherwise has a perspective on) the popular music of the 20th century can hardly escape the impression that things have been dumbed down to a strained degree these days. Traditional sensibilities of great songwriting, both musically and lyrically, seem to have gone down the drain, replaced by monotony, crass self-assertion, braggadocio and even aggression. Basic reflectional nuances of expression, such as humor, irony, wistfulness, melancholy, and reminiscence itself, appear largely dysfunctional in this millennium. The now is all.

What used to be "rock" proliferated into a myriad of narrow sub-genres of some "metal" variety, most of which center on personal instrumental virtuosity, quasi-heroic egoist mythologies based on half-baked philosophical or occultist notions, and a general angsty defaitism towards humanity. MTV was sold and promptly turned into a channel plugging misogynous gangsta rap, spurious "glamour" R&B and unfathomable award galas. Crossover country is the genre that retains some elements of what used to make for good pop music, like the combination of savvy chord progressions and meaningful lyrics.

On the other foot, sound technology is richer and more diverse than ever. It's just the content that is mostly missing. For the kind of substance I'm talking about I find myself going back to '30s/'40s calypso, old delta blues, Hoagy Carmichael, Cole Porter, things like that. But I do like e.g. Snarky Puppy for what they do instrumentally, and am listening out.
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The truth!

Unfortunately, millennials won't understand what you just said. :D
 

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