I finally got laid! Laid off!

[jmattbassplaya]

I gotta ask, what exactly were the numbers you came up with (assuming they don't divulge too much of your personal finances)? I'd be curious to see what you've managed to figure.

 

[Remyd]

Looks like I'm late to this party, but a few things came to my mind quickly on this topic (which may have already been covered):

1. Do you have the skills needed to do music at a professional level? The connections? How likely is it that you can land a spot in several different bands, that are all making decent money, in a very short time frame? Be realistic here.

Maybe, but not probably. I am working on a couple things. Worth a shot, anyhow.

2. How does doing the music thing benefit your career? Will a potential future employee see this excursion from the workforce as a good thing or a bad thing? What marketable skills will you be gaining from this? How will it make you a more valuable employee to an employer?

Well, I already have all the small business framework stuff set up from a previous endeavor. I think the thing that would go on a resume of that type would be my small company. I think taking a break to try some entrepreneurship (in this case focused on the music business, obviously) is common in the business world.

I've been playing the skin off my fingers on a DB; does that count as a marketable skill?

 

[Marial]

Barring failing the background check and drug test (not likely since I've never been arrested, don't do drugs, and only have one speeding ticket and I'm currently a licensed P&C agent), my reinvention is on pace. I'll still be in sales, but I'm out of the insurance biz. Training for the new job starts after Thanksgiving and my last day in the current trench is Nov 7, so I'll have a couple of weeks off to look for something even better, work on music, and have some time at home with my son.

Since you'll ask, the new job is in funeral services and pre-planning. Not a field for everyone, but I'm actually pretty well suited for it, and I think it's going to be really interesting. I've had the scene from The Big Lebowski running through my head since I got the interview invitation and have been chuckling to myself.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Unemployment compensation is meant to help meet your expenses until you get your next job, the expectation being that you are actually looking for a job. Unemployment is not meant to give you a nine month vacation. People who take advantage of the system are the reason that Congress is reluctant to extend benefits to people who are actually looking for a job but can't find one.

Sorry but there is nothing ethical about using your unemployment benefits to fund an extended vacation and or career as a full time musician. Also, any money you make is required to be reported and your unemployment benefits will be reduced accordingly.

Sorry, but you are not correct on this. Employers pay a tax to fund unemployment. This is money that could be included in a person's salary, sort of like Social Security or Medicare, but isn't because the government takes control of it. Since it is not an entitlement, I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for. But, I can see your point about Congress, they need the money to pay the $900 a month lease fee on a Cadillac to ride around in.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Sorry, but you are not correct on this. Employers pay a tax to fund unemployment. This is money that could be included in a person's salary, sort of like Social Security or Medicare, but isn't because the government takes control of it. Since it is not an entitlement, I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for. But, I can see your point about Congress, they need the money to pay the $900 a month lease fee on a Cadillac to ride around in.

I'd like to see your sources for this information.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

I'd like to see your sources for this information.

How about the federal government?

The FUTA rate is 6.0% and employers can take a credit of up to 5.4% of taxable income if they pay state unemployment taxes. This amount is deducted from the amount of employee federal unemployment taxes you owe. Most states have their own State Unemployment Insurance Tax Act (SUTA or SUI).

Did you question every post on this topic? You have internet. Look it up.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

How about the federal government?

The FUTA rate is 6.0% and employers can take a credit of up to 5.4% of taxable income if they pay state unemployment taxes. This amount is deducted from the amount of employee federal unemployment taxes you owe. Most states have their own State Unemployment Insurance Tax Act (SUTA or SUI).

Did you question every post on this topic? You have internet. Look it up.

Unemployment compensation is meant to help meet your expenses until you get your next job, the expectation being that you are actually looking for a job. Unemployment is not meant to give you a nine month vacation. People who take advantage of the system are the reason that Congress is reluctant to extend benefits to people who are actually looking for a job but can't find one.

Sorry but there is nothing ethical about using your unemployment benefits to fund an extended vacation and or career as a full time musician. Also, any money you make is required to be reported and your unemployment benefits will be reduced accordingly.

No, I do not question every post on this topic. I only question the ones that are wrong. lfmn16 gave a very accurate explanation of the purpose of unemployment, and you said that his explanation was incorrect. Further, you attempted to prove him wrong by stating where unemployment funds originate, which has nothing to do with the comment form lfmn16. Additionally, you implied that there is nothing wrong with taking the benefits while you pursue additional means of compensation: "I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for." I think you are the one that needs to do a search. In North Carolina, and probably all 50 states, your way of thinking could get you into a great deal of trouble:

"...5. When filing your weekly certifications,you must report any money you earned in
the week it was earned (not received).
6. Failure to report money earned may be considered fraud.
7. You must answer all questions each week truthfully and accurately to receive
unemployment insurance payments.
8. Making a false statement or furnishing inaccurate information to obtain
unemployment payments will disqualify you from receiving future unemployment
payments. Falsifying information can result in criminal prosecution and repayment
of benefits through future payroll deduction, and recovery from state and or federal
income tax refunds."

Invalid Link Removed

Again, I encourage the OP to research the laws in his state, before he proceeds with his plans.

Edit: In North Carolina, you are allowed to earn a certain amount of money each week without affecting you UI benefit, however, I have have not been able to find out what that amount is.

"What is an earning allowance?
Your earning allowance is the amount of money you can earn without reducing your weekly benefit amount. Earnings over this amount are deducted dollar-for-dollar from your weekly benefits. You must always report your gross earnings for any work performed during any week you claim benefits."

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

No, I do not question every post on this topic. I only question the ones that are wrong. lfmn16 gave a very accurate explanation of the purpose of unemployment, and you said that his explanation was incorrect. Further, you attempted to prove him wrong by stating where unemployment funds originate, which has nothing to do with the comment form lfmn16. Additionally, you implied that there is nothing wrong with taking the benefits while you pursue additional means of compensation: "I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for." I think you are the one that needs to do a search. In North Carolina, and probably all 50 states, your way of thinking could get you into a great deal of trouble:

"...5. When filing your weekly certifications,you must report any money you earned in
the week it was earned (not received).
6. Failure to report money earned may be considered fraud.
7. You must answer all questions each week truthfully and accurately to receive
unemployment insurance payments.
8. Making a false statement or furnishing inaccurate information to obtain
unemployment payments will disqualify you from receiving future unemployment
payments. Falsifying information can result in criminal prosecution and repayment
of benefits through future payroll deduction, and recovery from state and or federal
income tax refunds."

Invalid Link Removed

Again, I encourage the OP to research the laws in his state, before he proceeds with his plans.

What you say here is true, but as long as the OP complies with the laws, and most states have such laws, he is doing nothing illegal.
What I said was incorrect was that is is illegal and immoral. Neither of those is true.
Because through your employer you are paying an unemployment tax to be used to support people who are unemployed, it is already paid for.
My way of thinking is correct. Sorry if you don't understand or are trying to twist facts to suit your opinion.
So here it is in an easy to follow list. Please point out what you think might be incorrect:

1. Employers pay both a federal and state unemployment tax. The proceeds of this tax are meant to fund the unemployment programs for each state.
2. When a person is laid off, but not dismissed for certain reasons (see local state laws), they are eligble for unemployment compensation.
3. When the person obtains a new position, they are no longer eligble for compensation.
4. The person has to meet state laws regarding reporting job search efforts, availablity to work, any compensation for working, and any interviews.
5. The person's activities are not limited by law to include only job search activities.
6. If the person is complying with the law, he is doing nothing illegal.

The only places I can see where the OP can go wrong is:
If he takes a gig and doesn't report the income - illegal
He refuses to accept offers that are within his skill set and salary range because he wants to play music, but is doing a job search only to statisfy state reporting requirements - unethical.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

What you say here is true, but as long as the OP complies with the laws, and most states have such laws, he is doing nothing illegal.
What I said was incorrect was that is is illegal and immoral. Neither of those is true.
Because through your employer you are paying an unemployment tax to be used to support people who are unemployed, it is already paid for.
My way of thinking is correct. Sorry if you don't understand or are trying to twist facts to suit your opinion.
So here it is in an easy to follow list. Please point out what you think might be incorrect:

1. Employers pay both a federal and state unemployment tax. The proceeds of this tax are meant to fund the unemployment programs for each state.
2. When a person is laid off, but not dismissed for certain reasons (see local state laws), they are eligble for unemployment compensation.
3. When the person obtains a new position, they are no longer eligble for compensation.
4. The person has to meet state laws regarding reporting job search efforts, availablity to work, any compensation for working, and any interviews.
5. The person's activities are not limited by law to include only job search activities.
6. If the person is complying with the law, he is doing nothing illegal.

The only places I can see where the OP can go wrong is:
If he takes a gig and doesn't report the income - illegal
He refuses to accept offers that are within his skill set and salary range because he wants to play music, but is doing a job search only to statisfy state reporting requirements - unethical.

Then why didn't you say it like this in the first place? This second response has an entirely different connotation than, "I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for." While I agree that there is nothing unethical about using UI, as long as you follow the rules, the governments, state and federal, take a very dim view of people who game the system, which one could easily infer that you were implying in your first response. At least I did. My apologies if I was wrong.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Then why didn't you say it like this in the first place? This second response has an entirely different connotation than, "I see nothing unethical about using what is already paid for." While I agree that there is nothing unethical about using UI, as long as you follow the rules, the governments, state and federal, take a very dim view of people who game the system, which one could easily infer that you were implying in your first response. At least I did. My apologies if I was wrong.

I apologize if I didn't provide enough detail. What I said in my most recent post expands on the meaning of the first post. Thanks for understanding. And, you can count me among those who think gaming the system is unethical and immoral as well as illegal.

 

[BluesWalker]

What you say here is true, but as long as the OP complies with the laws, and most states have such laws, he is doing nothing illegal.
What I said was incorrect was that is is illegal and immoral. Neither of those is true.
Because through your employer you are paying an unemployment tax to be used to support people who are unemployed, it is already paid for.
My way of thinking is correct. Sorry if you don't understand or are trying to twist facts to suit your opinion.
So here it is in an easy to follow list. Please point out what you think might be incorrect:

1. Employers pay both a federal and state unemployment tax. The proceeds of this tax are meant to fund the unemployment programs for each state.
2. When a person is laid off, but not dismissed for certain reasons (see local state laws), they are eligble for unemployment compensation.
3. When the person obtains a new position, they are no longer eligble for compensation.
4. The person has to meet state laws regarding reporting job search efforts, availablity to work, any compensation for working, and any interviews.
5. The person's activities are not limited by law to include only job search activities.
6. If the person is complying with the law, he is doing nothing illegal.

The only places I can see where the OP can go wrong is:
If he takes a gig and doesn't report the income - illegal
He refuses to accept offers that are within his skill set and salary range because he wants to play music, but is doing a job search only to statisfy state reporting requirements - unethical.

One of the problems with reporting bar gig income is how the bar system works, at least when I was a part-time musician in SE Michigan and the Boston area. Our bands were paid at the end of the night our of the evening' bar revenue. As far as I know, the bar never reported it to the IRS nor did they report it as some sort of expense. Thus, if you report the $100 you got for playing a Friday night bar gig, this could cause problems for a lot of other people. How do others handle this?

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

One of the problems with reporting bar gig income is how the bar system works, at least when I was a part-time musician in SE Michigan and the Boston area. Our bands were paid at the end of the night our of the evening' bar revenue. As far as I know, the bar never reported it to the IRS nor did they report it as some sort of expense. Thus, if you report the $100 you got for playing a Friday night bar gig, this could cause problems for a lot of other people. How do others handle this?

I have never had an issue over this with the IRS, but it is a fuzzy grey area. But, the club owner is paying the BL for a service. He is not paying individuals. That is like the bar owner buying beer. He is paying the distributor for a product. He has no responsibility to the driver who delivered it. He reports it as a cost of good sold; however, the fee for the band may be for advertising. In reality, he probably doesn't even report it which reduces revenue but not cost, so his taxes are less.

Now the fuzzy part. The BL can go one of two ways. He can list you as an employee and do all the tax accounting or he can classify you as a contractor and use a 1099 to show what he paid. The issue with the contractor title is the IRS has some very strict definitions of what is or is not a contractor.

So what the club does doesn't affect you. You need to have a talk with the BL to see how he is doing it. I know you don't want to get anyone else in trouble, but in this case, you would go down with him. I like everyone in my band, but not enough to be their cell mate.

And one other thing to watch for. Depending on the state you live in, the BL and possibley you may be liable for paying sales tax on your receipts.

 

[MJ5150]

I would make sure I do the right thing legally and clear my conscience.

-Mike

 

[mellowinman]

It amazes me how some people are able to live with such high ethics because they have never had those ethics tested.

I am considering this as my new sig.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

It amazes me how some people are able to live with such high ethics because they have never had those ethics tested.

I was wrongfully laid off a couple years due to corporate BS games. Absolutely nothing to do with performance, only that I had been promoted due to skill and thus made more than less skilled people at the company. This meant I had a target on my back.

I paid into that unemployment consistently for almost 20 years! That's right-they take it out of your salary every check here in 'Merica.

it is NOT a free hand-out.

Also, the USA is in a recession, regardless of what anyone says: inflation is up, salaries are down if you can even find a comparable job to what you were laid off from.

Full time musician? May not pay much less than working at Home Depot anyhow.
If OP wants to use his severance, or Unemployment Benefits if they can't find a COMPARABLE job to the one he lost, go for it!

Judging by your post it is obvious that you haven't been keeping up with this thread. If you had been, you would know that you haven't paid one penny toward UI. That is paid for by a tax on your employer. As far as having my ethics tested, I've been out of work and on UI three times in my 65 years on this rock, so...yeah, my ethics have been tested plenty.

 

[obimark]

I am considering this as my new sig.

Exactly

Judging by your post it is obvious that you haven't been keeping up with this thread. If you had been, you would know that you haven't paid one penny toward UI. That is paid for by a tax on your employer. As far as having my ethics tested, I've been out of work and on UI three times in my 65 years on this rock, so...yeah, my ethics have been tested plenty.

Either way, I see no issue with anyone who has the right to take the benefit by being laid off using it.
I have been laid off twice myself, and it is the employers choice to lay you off. Not the person who faithfully worked for the employer, who could have jumped ship anytime there was a dime more to be made.
So as others have stated that UI is part of your total package, you earned, so take it.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Exactly

Either way, I see no issue with anyone who has the right to take the benefit by being laid off using it.
I have been laid off twice myself, and it is the employers choice to lay you off. Not the person who faithfully worked for the employer, who could have jumped ship anytime there was a dime more to be made.
So as others have stated that UI is part of your total package, you earned, so take it.

As I said, you obviously haven't been keeping up with the thread.

 

[obimark]

As I said, you obviously haven't been keeping up with the thread.

Since you deleted your original post condemning the OP as a lowlife which I originally wrote my response to on the first page, I am a little confused.

You have a nice day.

 

[tycobb73]

I have started a business while on unemployment. It was an accounting bussiness. I would group my work together and not claim those weeks. In the beginning i would claim 3 weeks and work 1. A self employed individual pays self employment tax that includes UI but is unable to collect UI. I got around this by forming an s Corp and working for it but i never collected UI after i formed the s Corp because i didn't have to.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Since you deleted your original post condemning the OP as a lowlife which I originally wrote my response to on the first page, I am a little confused.

You have a nice day.

I'm sure that you have me confused with someone else, since I have not said one word negative toward the OP, nor do I recall deleting any post in this thread. In fact, if you review the entire thread I have said at least once that I hope the OP is successful in accomplishing his goals and that my only reason for posting in this thread is that I feel he is getting some very bad advice, and posters are encouraging him to do things that can and probably will get him in trouble. Here is one such example:

...I don't think anyone in this thread is trying to discourage the OP. I wish him well. However, I believe he is getting some very bad advice, and others and I are only trying to help him avoid trouble and a possible loss of any income assistance. I suspect that all states have websites similar to the one I linked in the above paragraph. I suggest the OP find his and read it.

I'm not sure what your problem is with me, but I suggest you find something else to do with your spare time. BTW, I am having a very nice day; I'm sorry that your day has you in such a sour mood.