I finally got laid! Laid off!

[Remyd]

I got laid off from my day job on Wednesday. My "position was eliminated for cost-cutting reasons". Not exactly a fanfare exit, more like the bum's rush. I've been with the company for a long time and got a pretty good severence which will take me into the first part of 2015 at full salary (not huge, but enough to keep the budget in the black if only just).

Last night, I was tying one on with a bandmate complaining about my situation. He asked my why I couldn't just BE a musician instead of stressing out (which I really, really was) about getting a new day job right away.

So, I started thinking about it. I mean, really thinking about it. And I was formerly (I guess) a business guy, so I couldn't help but run some numbers based on my severence, expected unemployment, reduction in fixed expenses due to not having to drag ass across the city twice (or four times) a day, reduced food and entertainment costs, no idiot tax for doughnut day or forced donations to charities I don't support or lunch for employees that won one of my stupid little contests, combined with a bit of cost reduction from health insurance (thanks ACA), etc. The numbers were so good that they failed the BS test. Ran them again, on paper this time and collapsed in a whiskey soaked heap. I was really loaded.

But I wrote it down so that I could check this morning in the blurry hangovery light of day. And I looked at the paperwork again. And I was still right. And the numbers were still mind-blowing.

The way I figure it, there is little chance of my finding an analogous job immediately and almost none of finding one that I like that actually pays at or above my current rate. My exit papers indicate that if I find full-time work during the severance period, payments stop. After severance, unemployment insurance will be based on that full rate. With the overhead reduction, it comes out to very nearly my full take-home when all is said and done. As long as I follow the rules, it has the added benefit of being entirely ethical. And it lasts until July 2015. That's right, July 2015.

Put another way, from October 22, 2014 to July 22, 2015 it will be better for me financially if I don't have a 40-hours-a-week-complain-about-TPS-reports type of job. I'll even still get the same pay rate I worked 15 years to gain. That's not counting any gig money or side deals or instrument sale profit or anything else I might do during that timeframe.

You guys, I think I get to be a professional full-time musician until summer at least!

 

[lfmn16]

Unemployment compensation is meant to help meet your expenses until you get your next job, the expectation being that you are actually looking for a job. Unemployment is not meant to give you a nine month vacation. People who take advantage of the system are the reason that Congress is reluctant to extend benefits to people who are actually looking for a job but can't find one.

Sorry but there is nothing ethical about using your unemployment benefits to fund an extended vacation and or career as a full time musician. Also, any money you make is required to be reported and your unemployment benefits will be reduced accordingly.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

It is not unethical to take the full severance. I assume Remyd will be looking for work during the unemployment insurance period so that he will have a job he will enjoy/pays enough so nothing unethical there. The point of unemployment is to help you get by while you look for an appropriate job, not the first one that comes along. Nothing unethical about taking your time and finding a good fit.

 

[Uncle Snake]

Subscribed!

 

[Remyd]

Unemployment compensation is meant to help meet your expenses until you get your next job, the expectation being that you are actually looking for a job. Unemployment is not meant to give you a nine month vacation. People who take advantage of the system are the reason that Congress is reluctant to extend benefits to people who are actually looking for a job but can't find one.

I think "taking advantage of the system" is a oversimplified (and wrong) statement. Unemployment insurance is an insurance policy (sort of), into which I (and probably you too) have been paying for over 20 years without a single dime of return. It's insurance for THIS EXACT SITUATION and there are rules, just like any other insurance coverage. If I set my own car on fire, my car insurance won't pay for it. If I don't use my unemployment period to look for a job (according to the rules) I won't be paid for it. If I make some additional money, the payments will be reduced as per the rules.

But the job doesn't have to be "Project Manager". It can/will be "Bassist". That's why it's ethical.

Sorry but there is nothing ethical about using your unemployment benefits to fund an extended vacation and or career as a full time musician. Also, any money you make is required to be reported and your unemployment benefits will be reduced accordingly.

First, there was no mention of a vacation anywhere. If you think 40 honest, dedicated hours a week at anything is a vacation, you're wrong.

What if we change the word "musician" to the word "carpenter"? If I was starting a new career as an independent carpenter, it might take a couple of months to get training, tools, truck, clients, etc together during which time I would still be drawing unemployment benefits. Nobody would begrudge a carpenter that opportunity, so there's no reason that shouldn't work the other way around.

 

[flojob]

Very interesting so far. Perhaps OP used the word ethical interchangeably with legal. Ethical is a singular perspective open to debate. Legal much less so, I should think. But, ethical could be exactly the right word for the OP, being that he speaks for himself and a perspective that can only be appreciated as a participant of his situation. Clearly he has had his debate, and drawn that the decision is legal AND ethical.
Not unlike the debate and rationale of the employer which chose to terminate his position after 15 years.
I'm not a mathematician, but surely with15 years of paying tax, even assuming only a small portion goes to fund unemployment, 9 months of return could be seen certainly as legal, but also ethical?
Also, congress is hesitant to extend benefits for people who need it for the same reason they hesitate with many things- it doesn't serve their goal at this time. The nature of government is punitive. They are necessary when society can not deal with itself in a just and honest manner, which is imperative when deciding the meaning of terms such as legal and ethical.
My first thread hijack! Up top!

 

[Stick_Player]

I think "taking advantage of the system" is a oversimplified (and wrong) statement. Unemployment insurance is an insurance policy (sort of), into which I (and probably you too) have been paying for over 20 years without a single dime of return. It's insurance for THIS EXACT SITUATION and there are rules, just like any other insurance coverage.

You paid INTO the insurance fund betting that you would someday be unemployed. Why else would you buy it?

The insurance company took the other bet - that you would never be unemployed. They've covered themselves better than you. If you've been paying in for 20 years, you most likely won't be getting the equivalent amount back. Probably should've bypassed the insurance and methodically set aside some "insurance money", on your own.

Unfortunately ALL insurance works this way.

Do you have life insurance? Might be a better pay out.

 

[flojob]

Do you have life insurance? Might be a better pay out.

Indeed. When speaking lump sum, most of us are worth more dead than alive! Hahaha

 

[GIBrat51]

If I read the OP's first post right, he's talking about living on his generous severance pay until next July, and trying to become a full-time musician by then (hope you make it, by the way). Severance pay has nothing to do with unemployment benefits. They would start after the severance pay ends; assuming that the OP is still looking for a job. If this is the case, nothing unethical or illegal about it.

 

[Humbled]

If I read the OP's first post right, he's talking about living on his generous severence pay until next July, and trying to become a full-time musician by then (hope you make it, by the way). Severance pay has nothing to do with unemployment benefits. They would start after the severance pay ends; assuming that the OP is still looking for a job. If this is the case, nothing unethical or illegal about it.

You are correct. State unemployment insurance would not kick in until a week or two after severance pay stops. That's the law, at least in my state.

And... It is Unemployment insurance. His employer paid it, mandatorily of course, but it is an earned benefit, as a portion of the cost of his total cost of his employment towards his employer, so it's a portion of the wage he earned.

Let's not start an ethics contest. I wish the OP the best, and if he has a chance to go pro, I say it's an worthy goal!

Growing old wondering "if you could have" is not what anyone needs when it's too late.

 

[AndyPanda]

You paid INTO the insurance fund betting that you would someday be unemployed. Why else would you buy it?

You are not given the choice - at least not where I live. Unemployment is automatically removed from your pay along with all the other taxes they take out.

 

[Stick_Player]

You are not given the choice - at least not where I live. Unemployment is automatically removed from your pay along with all the other taxes they take out.

Probably true. But there is likely some "Opt Out" way.

I don't believe I've ever paid for "unemployment".

 

[Humbled]

Probably true. But there is likely some "Opt Out" way.

I don't believe I've ever paid for "unemployment".

No, there is no "opt out". The employer paid it, mandatorily, so it is part of the total compensation package. i.e.: The employee paid it, just like any other tax.

 

[Stick_Player]

No, there is no "opt out". The employer paid it, mandatorily, so it is part of the total compensation package. i.e.: The employee paid it, just like any other tax.

I certainly believe you. I've never had one of those jobs. I've always to to handle EVERYTHING.

The OP seemed to say that HE paid it.

But I do know how insurance works. As was suggested in a previous post, you are usually worth more dead than alive. And I have probably too much insurance.

 

[Humbled]

I am most certainly worth more dead than alive.

 

[JTE]

Unemployment Compensation Insurance is different in various states. In Illinois, UIC is paid whether one has a severance package or not. The employee does NOT make payments to the state UIC fund, that is all borne by the employer. ANY money earned by working, including music performance must be reported and will lower the amount of the semi-weekly unemployment payment. To continue receiving UIC you have to be actively seeking employment. Other states have different rules.

It does seem clear the OP in the first post was including UIC income in his calculations along with the severance.

John

 

[powmetalbassist]

Being from Canada, our EI Employment Insurance (Don't ask) is meant to be used in a similar manner as in the states, though we also have Welfare which is to cover anyone without a job after EI comes to an end or if you don't qualify.

In any case I have to side with the OP, the OC (original commentor? - first reply) seems ticked off that someone else gets to live the dream while he slaves away. There is nothing wrong with taking the money you have put into insurance for years and trying to make a living doing something you love. No different than going from General Labour to Lawyer/Doctor/Nurse/Librarian. Just a change of profession, that is all.

 

[Remyd]

It does seem clear the OP in the first post was including UIC income in his calculations along with the severance.

Nah, in my state it starts after severance is complete. Looking for a musical job is still looking for a job. I'll either find some kind of situation that pays the bills in the next 9 months or I will have to re-don the neutral suit and corporate attitude.

I'm just now on board with this idea in the first place. My fuggin dream came true somehow. I just have to man up and make it happen.

 

[AndyPanda]

Things may have changed - and may be different in other states - but 30-40 years ago I was playing 6 nights a week in nightclubs as my full time job. This was in Utah and talking to the authorities (I may have misunderstood or been misinformed - but I asked several times and they always told me the same) I was told that being self employed I had to pay an SE (self employed) tax along with my income tax. The SE tax was described as being the self employed version of paying into Social Security, medicare and unemployment etc. However they told me that although I had to pay into it, I could not claim unemployment (for example if the band were out of work for a few weeks or months - fortunately we never were though). They explained that in order for us musicians to collect unemployment one of us would have to declare ourselves "the boss" and then pay the rest of the band and give them 1099 or W2 - and then everyone in the band except the boss/employer could collect unemployment if the band couldn't find work.

 

[digmeout]

"Congress is reluctant to extend benefits to people who are actually looking for a job but can't find one."
Congress is not reluctant to extend benefits, they have just stopped entirely paying them out , but they haven't stopped collecting unemployment tax from employers. How ethical is that? We'll take your money but we won't give it back.