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I just got fired because I wouldn't Play for Free

#21
Question to the OP- Wouldn't it be better to be playing in front of people than to be posting about getting "fired"?

I understand the concept that you want and possibly need to get paid for playing-but as long as you're not passing up a date with a paying gig-playing for free can NEVER hurt you.

Case in point- my current band was formed because a very talented Singer/songwriter came to a "free" choir concert that I was playing with my local church. He was just looking for someone to help with his music and now we've got several paying gigs lined up simply by me playing 1 free gig.

I wonder how many great bands were started because a member noticed a player onstage who just stood out and offered them a job/tyrout??

I'm by no means trying to criticize you but a LOT of times you have to pay your dues before you get the paying job-I'm not talking about practicing or woodshedding it either those are a MUST especially with paying/originals.....lol

Later
 
#23
Probably will work out for your future projects. Almost sounds like they helped push the issue a bit, and you didn't have to find a reason to leave them. This will give you momentum and energy to find a new band you'll like more, and you now know what you don't want.

As for the money issue, I've heard a lot of cover bands say NEVER play for free, and I understand the points some other TBers are also saying about cutting in and so on, and It's true about us not beeing sub-standard citizens, we should be payed for the work we do. I am a city worker doing excavations, water repairs, and sewer repairs. I would not see why I would do that ever for free.

EXCEPT. There are exceptions. A few examples are big special events. We usualy charge 600$-800$ for a club gig, and 100-150 people show up. Of those, maybee 10% will come to see us at our next gig, but probably less. We were asked to play for 2500 people last year, but the organizer did not know about her budget. We said yes anyway. Other exceptions (for me) are fund raisers, where I can always say no, but if we participate, it's all in for the fund raiser. We also do the opening act for a few tribute bands, and we don't always see money, and if so, not much, but this is marketing. We know for a fact that before us, they never had anyone open for them. And we are playing to our target audience. We do material that is 100% related to that tribute, so we get a bunch of extra fans each time.
 
#25
1st....

what a crappy way to get rid of a band member. cowards :spit:

2nd....

It seems the other members of the band have other goals than yourself. I have quit bands before for IMO not being honest at the outset in their offer to join their band.

Some bands I have joined in the beginning say things to get you to join if they are REALLY into you.....

"We are going to work hard & book excellent gigs"

"We are totally into this being 100% professional & make money!!!!"


IME, I will play for free only for a good cause or reason. I love to play but I also consider myself a part-time semi-professional musician. My time is important to me and is worth something. I can understand rehearsing semi-freuently when you are just starting out but I have been in bands that want to rehearse 2-3 times a week and play out once every month or two and the band has been together for over a year or more. There is no need IMO to continually practice because for some people rehearsing is their outlet to get away from home and is their entertainment for the evening. They get into playing rock god.

They made a decision for you that you may have made yourself 3, 6, 12 months down the road. In a way, they did you a favor.

Maybe you could steal the keyboardist. :smug:
 
#26
Why is it so hard for some of you people to comprehend that a serious band would play for free? I make alot of money where I work, as does the others. We dont need to play for money.

Is that really so hard to understand? Or is it that your arrogance gets in the way of believing that a "good" band would play for free?
 
#27
Our band is the proverbial garage band going nowhere on purpose. Although we have talked about cleaning things up and playing gigs. The band is split on whether to do that and if so bars or house parties. But that's another story. I quit my last band (trio) because the other two wanted to play in bars but weren't committed to getting a show together and I was committed to practice but wasn't real hip on playing in bars. I have a day time job and I'm doing alright. But other than a once or twice exposure practice thing I wouldn't play a bar or party for free. As many have said it's not fair to the professionals and it's disrespectful to yourselves. If your good enough to be asked to paly somewhere at least get a token pay to cover expenses and if you feel guilty about taking money for music donate it to a local school to buy instruments. keep the music alive.
 
#28
WayneS said:
Why is it so hard for some of you people to comprehend that a serious band would play for free?
Click to expand...

A serious cover band WOULDN'T play for free. Not if they were any good.

I understand the situation in the original post. I got sorta booted once for the same reason. You're better off finding another band because there would just be more trouble down the line.

I found that people look at the cover thing from a lot of different angles. For me it's basically a part time job with the benefit of being able to do what I love and sharpen my bass skills. I don't get excited about it like I do original music, just doesn't move me in any way near the same way. Other people take it a lot more seriously. They don't care about the money and make doing covers their top priority. That's cool, just not where I'm at. I was fortunate enough to find a band where neither the money nor being a great band is a priority :) . They're a bunch of cool guys who just want to cut loose on the weekends. We don't rehearse, we don't argue over money, the guy who books the gigs will pay the members (like me) who the money is more important too, even if a bar has a lousy night and we make less. It's a sweet deal, I have fun, and attitude seems to carry over into the places we play because they've always got people coming to see them.

In the first band I mentioned all I ever heard was, "It's only about the money for you!" Uhh... yup.
 
#30
There are two reasons it's okay to play for free:

1) You are just starting out and have no experience, no fan base, no mailing list, and no clout whatsoever. This usually coincides with being 16 years old. Or,

2) You are doing something that will really help your band in the long run - opening for a huge act, playing a charity show with good news coverage, etc.

Both of these apply only to original bands.

If you are in a cover band, you should never agree to play for free. Even a jukebox gets paid. Playing for free is something original bands do for "exposure" until they have a fan base. Playing for free is something cover bands do when they're stupid. YMMV.
 
#31
Dave Muscato said:
There are two reasons it's okay to play for free:

1) You are just starting out and have no experience, no fan base, no mailing list, and no clout whatsoever. This usually coincides with being 16 years old. Or,

2) You are doing something that will really help your band in the long run - opening for a huge act, playing a charity show with good news coverage, etc.

Both of these apply only to original bands.

If you are in a cover band, you should never agree to play for free. Even a jukebox gets paid. Playing for free is something original bands do for "exposure" until they have a fan base. Playing for free is something cover bands do when they're stupid. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Very well said.
 
#32
After reading through the responses so far, I want to just hit a few points that have been brought up.

I will play for free for the right reasons. IE Charity benefits, or a few times for original music promotion.
This was a copy band and I refuse to help make some bar owners BMW payment with no compensation for my time and energy. We all know what it takes to get a band performance ready. For the past month and a half The Band has been pushing rehearsals 2 and 3 nights a week with at least 4, grueling 6-8 hour Saturday rehearsals just so that we could be ready to work ASAP. I was always on time as was the drummer, the guitards were consistently 30 minutes late. I always had my homework done and was ready to play the new songs for that rehearsal, I can't say that about anybody else in the band (pre Keyboard player).

Now, I also have a classic case of GAS for a new amp and I am always on the lookout for new basses. That being said, I have a basic rule that my gear either pays for itself or that I have saved enough outside of the general house fund to by it with cash. I have managed to raise two kids and stay married for 25 years with this Rule.

As far as liking the music, when you drive the dance floor and it all works, I come around quickly, just not what I would listen to personally. If it won't get them dancing then we have reason to discuss dropping those tunes. Since this was a start up (Which I typically don't want to deal with) I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They all originally presented themselves as Professionals and I took them at their word.

Lastly they really did do me a favor since I have been riding the fence on this for a several weeks now. I have a commitment thing in me that makes me tend to stick things out much longer than is probably good for me. The keyboard player and I have been having a bit of a side dialog and all is good there. I will invite them all to my gigs and try to get out to see them when I can. There is no animosity on my part. This was just very surprising, especially since I didn't actually refuse to play the gig, I just let them know my opinion about playing for free again. I have not gotten past the audition stage my fair share of times, but that happens, you can't be a perfect fit for every situation. I really can't remember ever being dismissed from a band. They usually just break up.

Thanks again for everyones input. it's been fun reading.

Jimi :bassist:
 
#33
I would play for free if I had to, BUT I DON'T! If there are bars/clubs out there that pay musicians to play, you'd be stupid not to play there. The money is out there for the taking if you take a few minutes to look for it. If you spend more than a few minutes on it, you could be raking in a hundred a night AND playing music you love.

I haven't heard a single reason in this thread why any of us shouldn't get paid. Doing it for the love of music? So am I. Don't need the extra money? Neither do I. But I'm not silly enough to ignore all the free money out there.

Anyways, I don't care if you guys don't try to get a piece of that, leaves more for me. Sure, money shouldn't be the number one priority and it never should be unless you depend on it for a living. It does make it much easier to convince a wife that your hobby is worth doing when you've got a couple grand in the bank towards the vacation fund.
 
#34
a lot of people up here questioning why the OP didn't want to do free gigs needs to take a look at their own seriousness. And its OK to say you aren't that serious, but pros don't work up a bunch of covers for fun. Quite honestly it is only so much fun to not be doing your own thing. A cover band is a vehicle to get paid, OR a vehicle for you to have fun and practice at what you kinda dig. Unfortunately, most seasoned players don't need to be practicing at your every day tunes, the reason to work them up is entertainment, which is definitely a service.

Would I want to be gigging instead of getting fired? (one person asks) if that act involved countless Mustang Sally's and REO Speedwagon covers, and I wasn't getting paid, hell no. It might be fun for you, but I expect to get paid for my services playing those songs, and even then I'd rather be doing Scofield and Flecktone tunes if I am not going to be working on originals.

Unless your asking me if I want to be gigging at the top venue in town for no pay, then that is a different story. If you live in Raleigh, I haven't seen Mustang Sally played at the Lincoln Theatre in like.........ever!!!!!!!!! For 550 off the top going to the house before you even get paid, i think you need to revisit your definition of serious.
 
#35
This is a very interesting topic, and it's interesting to see the different responses.

What really irks me, and it was brought up before, is when people say that if you want to make money, or if money is your "primary concern," that you are selling out. It drives me nuts, because every day we listen to bands that we idolize for their musicianship and success, we learn their licks, we learn their tunes, we go to their concerts and watch them as they get paid to entertain us (getting paid more than we can possibly imagine), and then when we try to get a paying gig together, we're suddenly selling out. But they never sold out.

A friend of mine once said, "the amount of times someone says 'it's all about the music' is directly proportional to the amount of money in his wallet." That's my opinion on it.

Yes, it is all about the music. When I'm on stage, I'm getting into it, I'm singing, dancing around, and having a great time. But after the gig, it feels great to know that I'm paying my bills by doing what I love, instead of working at some ****** job that drains my soul. Isn't that what we all want - to make money by playing music? Then we should all dream of "selling out."

Here's my personal list.

You can play for free when:
1. You're in a garage band that just jams for fun, with no aspirations
2. You're in a high school band, and you are not fully responsible for your finances (funded by your parents)
3. You're playing for a charity event
4. Your checkbook is in the black, and you can afford to play for free, and the gig does not cost you too much money (it's not a long drive, you don't need gas money, you park and eat for free, etc.)

That's how I do it. I have no problem playing for free, but if I'm broke, or if I'm spending money to play the gig, I expect, and need, some compensation.
 
#36
"Why is it so hard for some of you people to comprehend that a serious band would play for free? I make alot of money where I work, as does the others. We dont need to play for money."

Hmmm. And what if some putz rolled into town offering to do your day job for free, because "I just love speculating stocks/maginging a restaraunt/flipping burgers (choose one or insert your own) so much that I couldn't possibly fathom charging someone to do it!". Now you can't feed your kids, buy gear or even pay rent with out going to the pawn shop.

Very well put Double Bass!
 
#37
Trevcda, or better yet, three times as many putzes as there were people actually doing your job well (and charging for it). The ratio around here of bands that charge to bands that do it "for fun" is probably 1:5, maybe 1:10.

Just remember the basic rule of economics, guys... there is no such thing as a free lunch. Nothing is truly "free." If you're not getting paid, that means somebody else is making your money instead of you. Think about it.

Similarly, even when you play for "free," you're not playing for free. Your basses, amps, gas, website, strings, rehearsal space, CDs you bought to learn, etc all cost money. If bars/clubs are not paying for that, guess who is?
 
#38
trevcda said:
Why do musicians continue to perpetuate the myth that they are second class citizens? That thier time, efforts and work have no value. When the brewers make beer, the clothes stores make clothes and automobile makers produce thier products "FOR THE ART OF IT" and give it away for free, I might change my views on this. Know what they call artist, dancers and other people who perform for free? Homeless. Does the sound guy provide thousands of dollars in equipment and his time for free just so he make you sound great? Know of any bands touring the country that foot the bill to rent the (insert the name of your town here) performing art center, a touring sound and light system and fly themselves to podunk so you and your buddies can see them for free? Yeah good luck with that. With the kind of thinking I see going on here you'll bring back the pay-to-play from the 90's. Your time, energy and efforts are worth something or you wouldn't be asked to be there. Don't let somebody else make money for your efforts or you'll just set yourself up to be walked on through out your musical career. obviously there are exceptions such as charities that you believe in. But even then the caterers and the facility are at least recouping operating costs. Sorry this stuff pisses me off. I'll stop ranting now...
Click to expand...

i guess the difference is the brewer and the car maker have a tangible product they can provide. and while music isnt intangible, per se, you are getting paid for your effort and ability (and not for the equipment or anything else). and while their efforts might be "worth something", that doesnt mean its money. the value may be intrensic (enjoying playing, getting the crowd pumped, etc).
 
#39
Jimi Cleek said:
Although in the long run I think they just helped me out because I am not good a quiting until things become totally intolerable.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it worked out for the best for both parties. FWIW, it was overall a positive experience, even though not quite your thing, you can still remain friends with them, use them as a reference, and maybe a pickup gig or two if they need you. As Sheryl Crow would say ' a change would do you good.'
 
#40
sublime0bass said:
i guess the difference is the brewer and the car maker have a tangible product they can provide. and while music isnt intangible, per se, you are getting paid for your effort and ability (and not for the equipment or anything else). and while their efforts might be "worth something", that doesnt mean its money. the value may be intrensic (enjoying playing, getting the crowd pumped, etc).
Click to expand...

I used to feel that way too, a long long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....
 

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