I met Carol Kay today

[VroomVroom]

I met Carol at NAMM around 1978 or so. She was doing a Music Man endorsement playing a 'Ray through an HD-130 driving a 212RH. Her timing precision is awesome, and she comes up with all these cool licks. I learned so much from her column in Guitar Player Magazine back in the '70s that I think most of my bass playing, my theory chops, and my teaching methods are rooted in her (along with Howard Roberts' column in the same magazine and Jeff Berlin's in "International Musician and Recording World").

She can sometimes come off as argumentitive and a bit acerbic. While I love her playing, her passion for teaching, and respect her wanting to have the records accurate, I don't beleive she played as many of the Motown tracks she claims. And her attitude towards folks who respectfully disagree can be very off-putting.

Like most human beings, she's not perfect. I continue to respect and admire her.

jte

I was just going to quote part of your post, but each time I read it piece by piece I realized it was just a terrific summation of the Carol Kaye experience. Very, very well said!

OP - it's awesome that you got to meet her. Isn't her spirit incredible? More than anything else I love her passion for music and for those who play and write.

 

[BassXgirl]

She can sometimes come off as argumentitive and a bit acerbic... While I love her playing, her passion for teaching, and respect her wanting to have the records accurate, I don't beleive she played as many of the Motown tracks she claims. And her attitude towards folks who respectfully disagree can be very off-putting.

If anybody had to spend as much time defending their accomplishments from people who just 'don't believe', I think anybody would eventually start to get a little tired of it and might just come off a little "argumentative". I believe her attitude towards people who disagree are warranted. Seriously, how do you 'respectfully' insult a legend like that?

 

[Fretless1!]

Wow! Now that's just cool as snot!

 

[JTE]

If anybody had to spend as much time defending their accomplishments from people who just 'don't believe', I think anybody would eventually start to get a little tired of it and might just come off a little "argumentative". I believe her attitude towards people who disagree are warranted. Seriously, how do you 'respectfully' insult a legend like that?

Wow! My experience is much different. Her comment that "no pros use D'Addario, they're awful strings" is one example. Her response to people after she posted that bit of hyperbole on her website was even more acerbic.

And she's never come up with any definite documentation of some of the key credits she's been promising for decades. Is "I Was Made To Love Her" Jamerson or Kaye? We can argue that it's quite unlike anything Jamerson ever played, especially going up as high as it does. But then if Stevie wrote the riff, then James would have played it that high. "Bernadette"? Too many people who worked at Motown at the time have refuted her claim. And I sure wouldn't trust union logs, as my experience with the AFM is that they can be less the accurate.

It's not just the people who question her claims to different recording credits (Babbit wrote a peice for Bass Player Magazine where he recounts a story of he and Jamerson hearing a song on the radio, and both thinking they played it), but generally anyone who disagrees with anything she says.

jte

 

[3rdBass]

She can sometimes come off as argumentitive and a bit acerbic. While I love her playing, her passion for teaching, and respect her wanting to have the records accurate, I don't beleive she played as many of the Motown tracks she claims. And her attitude towards folks who respectfully disagree can be very off-putting.

Like most human beings, she's not perfect. I continue to respect and admire her.

jte

BIG +1

I had the amazing opportunity to attend a series of college workshops with her. Afterwards, she performed a free concert with Joe Pass & Paul Humphrey in an intimate campus theater. Truly one of my main inspirations, not to mention turning me on to TI Jazz Flats !

 

[b_carville]

I don't know for sure but I was told ( By an old LA musicians union administrator) that Motown cut "safety" tracks of a lot of their hits.By "safety"tracks he ment they cut backing tracks of the big hits using the same charts,arrangements,etc.exactly like the originals.
This guy(we were both drunk) also said that Motown would sometimes cut stereo tracks in LA & monaural tracks in Detroit of the same tunes.He claimed to have handled a lot of the 1960's LA union paperwork & that Motown was always trying to dodge union fees & always were fibbing about how many hours,how many musicians,etc.
I have no way of knowing if that was true or not but it would explain a lot.There's some LA horn players who claim to have played on old Motown tracks as well.
And we all know Bernard Purdie played drums on many Beatle tracks!
Carol Kaye is a Goddess!

 

[Jim Campbell]

I don't know for sure but I was told ( By an old LA musicians union administrator) that Motown cut "safety" tracks of a lot of their hits.By "safety"tracks he ment they cut backing tracks of the big hits using the same charts,arrangements,etc.exactly like the originals.
This guy(we were both drunk) also said that Motown would sometimes cut stereo tracks in LA & monaural tracks in Detroit of the same tunes.He claimed to have handled a lot of the 1960's LA union paperwork & that Motown was always trying to dodge union fees & always were fibbing about how many hours,how many musicians,etc.
I have no way of knowing if that was true or not but it would explain a lot.There's some LA horn players who claim to have played on old Motown tracks as well.
And we all know Bernard Purdie played drums on many Beatle tracks!
Carol Kaye is a Goddess!

i dont see why there is all of the to do over this.....its entirely possible that she played on that session but the producers used the other version.....there has been so much he said she said and name calling over this........motown was notorious for its stingy treatment of its session guys.......ive still got my carole kaye bass book that i bought in school and i still use it from time to time......

 

[steve66]

Cool that you got to meet Carol. I have a few of her Bass tutors and DVD's. They have been great tools when I started playing the bass.