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I think Fender is seriously crazy!

#45
I think the term "unskilled" is applied far too broadly to Fender's early workforce, a lazy way of knocking Fender's early instruments. Some of those folks were serious craftsmen.
 
#47
The MIM Classic prices have definitely gone up. Some instruments, like the Classic '70s P bass, have apparently shifted production from Japan to Mexico with no difference in price.

However the general consensus is that the Classic stuff is better built than the MIM standard range, if you don't mind the period charm (no headstock-end truss adjustment, smaller frets, glossy neck). The pickups are upgraded as well.

If you don't like paying that much for a MIM bass buy an American Special Precision bass, but you won't notice much of an improvement in quality, if at all.

On a side note, why was there never a '60s Classic Precision bass?
 
#48
Kmonk said:
I don't get it either. The MIM basses seem to be way over priced considering you can get a used MIA for a couple of hundred dollars more. I have a tough time dealing with today's prices. It's not that I can't afford them. It's the fact that I remember buying MIA Fenders for $200 to $300 in the late 70s and early 80s. Having said that, I do own several MIA Fenders including an 82 Precision and 2011 Jazz.
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+1

Seriously MIM used to be less than half-
 
#49
6stringpanda said:
+1

Seriously MIM used to be less than half-
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Firstly, they used to be half the instrument. Seen '90s MIM stuff? It was clearly made to a much lower standard to get it out the door. Secondly, adjust for inflation. Seen '60s house prices? Yowza. Until you run a basic inflation calculation on the price.

The phrase "unskilled Mexican labour" comes, as far as I can tell, from the Alan Yentob documentary on the electric guitar that was originally shown on BBC 4. I don't remember who said it, but it was during a discussion on the value of vintage Stratocasters. It does seem that "Mexican" was used, at least in part, in a pejorative sense, the idea being that it was silly to pay good money for a vintage instrument when Fender paid some mugs from South of the border pennies to do piecemeal work to the best of their abilities and wing the rest. The whole thing seems to basically equate to "why pay a chunk for a vintage guitar that was screwdrivered together by immigrants?"

The phrase "workers without traditional luthiery skills" would probably be better. If Abigail Ybarra was an unskilled hack then the boutique pickup winders of the world wouldn't have gone flocking to her door to dry and uncover the quirks of the pre-CBS pickups.
 
#50
smcd said:
If you're getting a 5% raise, you've stayed well ahead of the US Consumer Price Index, which has gone up slightly over 1% per year since 2011. So your 5% raise was very nice. Congrats!
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CPI is calculated to reduce the increases in payments for government transfers of all kinds, so it leaves out a lot of costs that increase on the higher range of the mix. If you get a raise that is equal to the CPI, you are still getting a cut in your buying power.

Yes, his raise was nice when you compare it to what the usual raises that are given.

Dan K.
 
#51
I'll say in now, I'm a Fender fanatic. Now that it's out of the way... People grip about how much Fender charges for their bass's but as mentioned else where on TB, you don't hear grips about what other companies are charging for Pbass and Jbass clones.
 
#54
Gee whiz, we don't discuss this topic enough. Only once or twice a week now. Dangnab it, someone should start a thread like this every single day!!!

That was sarcasm, in case anyone was actually thinking about doing it. Here's the deal...Fender is in business to MAKE MONEY. If they don't MAKE MONEY, they don't STAY IN BUSINESS. And nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy their products. If they were, then you might have a reason to constantly complain. As it stands, it just makes those who complain look like chronic complainers.

Same for the number of Precisions and Jazz Basses out there. Fender tries very hard to introduce new lines, but people buy Precisions and Jazzes. And that's why there are so many variants of them...they sell and the other lines do not. Now if you're Fender, do you beat your head against the wall and keep all these countless other basses that don't sell in the lineup or do you cut bait and give the people what they want?

Real easy to run a company from the sidelines, isn't it?
 
#55
It's pretty basic consumer market pricing. People will pay more for a special model that is different from the base model in just about any manufactured item on the market. I don't know if it costs Fender more to build a Classic Series bass or not, but people want them and will pay more for them because, to the consumer involved, it carries a higher value.
 
#56
article


Price: CHF 7.5/kg

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Price: CHF 4.47/kg

Virtually same product, different marketing strategy.

I teach a marketing class here in eastern Switzerland, and this is one of my frequent examples. I do a blind test every time, and nobody gets the difference. Price difference is around 60%.

Don't put the basses under the microscope. They might be technically identical...different positioning, different image, different marketing segment.
 
#57
petrus61 said:
I would reserve judgement until after you actually try one. The Classic series are an easy 10 notches above the MIM standards. If you want to whine about overpriced imports, Lakland, Spector and G&L all are American companies who charge over $700 for their import lines. Homework.
Click to expand...

I agree here. The Roadworns are also MIM pricy but great basses. the classic series P I had was hands down one of the best built and playing Fender I have ever owned equal to my MIA in everyway.
 
#58
georgestrings said:
That's because for the vast majority of the time, it just isn't true - it's more a fantasy born of those who can't/won't spend more money to obtain a higher quality instrument... So, they attempt to convince *themselves* that their cheaper basses are "as good or better" than their more expensive counterparts, with that tired old line of BS...

The truth is, spending more money will nearly always get you a better instrument - although the law of diminishing returns comes into play, as the *gains per dollar* will generally get smaller as you go up the ladder... I say, buy the best instrument you can comfortably afford, then enjoy it - and don't worry about it any more...

Best of luck in your search,

- georgestrings
Click to expand...

Coming form a guy who has owed and played all Fenders mostly P basses from vintage to Squier you are way off here..IMO :D

I have Squiers (old ones) that are as good playing and sounding as my 08' MIA P was. I have had MIMs also as good as my 73' P bass...was.

I believe the exact opposite of you. Some players need to shove a fancy big buck bass in others faces and try to really convince themselves that it is superior in everyway to a more budget bass. This way they can convince themselves the cost was well worth it but inside allot know it was just bought for the make and name. The player makes the bass..not the other way around.

I'm not talking affinity's or the cheap bases out there. I'm talking good mid -line basses in the $400-800 dollar range.
To me in most environments we weekend warrior, non- professionals play in nobody including myself would know if a guy was playing a $100 bass or a $10,000 bass its just bass we hear...period.

I used to think a higher priced bass was worth it and I needed it. I drank that kool aid.

Today I play a beatup 80's MIK E Series Squier that I modded and reworked the neck on. It might be the best bass I have ever owned to date. I bought it for $65.00 added good pups, ($110.00) rewire cap /pots , added MIA Fender bridge another $75.00 total so about $250.00 in it and it kills.

I don't know why I get into these debates here..oh yea for the S&G :smug:
 
#60
I've just unpacked my sons x-mas present, a MIJ Mustang RI and if my memory serves me well, and it often doesn't, the quality is far beyond what one would have got 20-30 yrs ago. My '79 Hondo which sold for $199.00 at the local RadioShack was almost unplayable. My buddies' El Degas P was marginally better at $299.00. That worked out back then to over 100hrs at what was a $2.25/hr minimum wage. This Mustang at $750.00 is a slightly more attainable to a minimum wage earner but miles better in quality, not even comparable really. I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was a reason to put whatever it was back on the shelf and look what happened. Maybe Mexico is following the same path where after 20yrs of manufacturing they've learned what shortcuts to avoid and that long-term business success comes from consistently improving the product without consistently raising prices. The bass world, as small as it is, has become very competitive over the years with dozens of manufacturers making hundreds of models and that is good for all of us.
 

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