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I think Fender is seriously crazy!
- Thread starter FishDub
- Start date
These discussions are WILDLY entertaining!
Listen - cost of labor and materials have gone UP in the last 50 years. So it's not like Fender can make MIAs and put them out for 500 bucks. It's just not mathematically possible, kids.
As far as what is superior to what? it's totally subjective - georgestrings - I've seen you badmouth lower-priced instruments because of their lower quality craftsmanship. While I TOTALLY see your point - that doesn't matter to MANY players - here and not on TB.
If I join a Ramones coverband, I'm not buying a friggin Fender MIA, or Lakland, or anything like that. I'm going to scour the bay, or CL, or classifieds here for a 200 dollar 90's P-Bass that has been ridden hard and put away wet. That's a damn fact, it's not an excuse to say this P-Bass is better than the Lakland or MIA --- it's saying that this is what WORKS FOR ME.
Fender will continue to put out more stuff at higher prices.
BUT LETS NOT FORGET - the new Modern Player series seems to have nice reviews and for the most part, they are priced very reasonably. MIM Blacktop series too! 500 bucks is not an unreasonable amount for a damn decent instrument.
RANTS - Love em
Listen - cost of labor and materials have gone UP in the last 50 years. So it's not like Fender can make MIAs and put them out for 500 bucks. It's just not mathematically possible, kids.
As far as what is superior to what? it's totally subjective - georgestrings - I've seen you badmouth lower-priced instruments because of their lower quality craftsmanship. While I TOTALLY see your point - that doesn't matter to MANY players - here and not on TB.
If I join a Ramones coverband, I'm not buying a friggin Fender MIA, or Lakland, or anything like that. I'm going to scour the bay, or CL, or classifieds here for a 200 dollar 90's P-Bass that has been ridden hard and put away wet. That's a damn fact, it's not an excuse to say this P-Bass is better than the Lakland or MIA --- it's saying that this is what WORKS FOR ME.
Fender will continue to put out more stuff at higher prices.
BUT LETS NOT FORGET - the new Modern Player series seems to have nice reviews and for the most part, they are priced very reasonably. MIM Blacktop series too! 500 bucks is not an unreasonable amount for a damn decent instrument.
RANTS - Love em
As a rule, expensive basses ARE better than budget basses. When I pick up an American Standard and compare it to a Chinese Squier, I can tell the difference. Not that the Squier isn't a totally decent bass for the money, but given a choice, the vast majority would take the US Fender. Contrary to what you think, Fender et.al. don't slap an $800 premium on a bass just because it has a "Made in USA" decal on the headstock. Pretty much everything is better quality on an American Standard in comparison to a Squier. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.
I'm glad your MIK Squier is making you happy. But you'd have a difficult time getting $100 for that bass, were you to put it up for sale. You could be the greatest salesman on Earth, but the only one who would be interested in your bass is you. There's a reason for that, and it's not because everyone is gullible or stupid. People recognize quality, and are willing to pay for it.
This is the TB way
I have not been around here much lately and with all the cold and snow up my @ss I enjoy again seeing some hot and steamy topics on TB
I already said I'm comparing decent mid level $400-800 dollar basses to the high dollar types not Chinese SX or Squiers.
Yes the quality is better with a higher priced instrument (better be) that I agree but is the playability and sound? In most cases NO!
So maybe you can get that mid level bass up to snuff with a few mods and guess what save allot of money.
But some here think they need the bells and whistle's but to most who hear you playing its just bass...just bass, cheapie or high end.
As for the MIK. I have been buying, selling and trading instruments for years both cheap to vintage. You are not telling me anything I do not know but thanks for trying.
That bass is cheap..yes, but with the mods and me reworking it feels and plays like a Fender Roadworn which was my intention.
I sold a nice 08' MIA P bass a few months back. I would have to lie to your face to tell you the MIA played, felt and sounded better ..did not. Was it built better..maybe? But not much since all that is left of the MIK is the wood and tuners. Both are poly covered and both weigh about the same. IMO my MIK creation sounds much better but I needed the coin for my boat so I sold the MIA. I knew he lowly MIK was not worth anything but it sounded and matched a MIA..go figure
BTW I would part that bass out never sell it as a whole anyways.
Look in most everything I have done hobby wise in my life I have always found mid priced or cheaper products that match or even out do high end similar products. It's a gift what can I say
Some of the posts are really entertaining.
We are talking about Fender. This should be front and centre in everybody's minds.
You are not talking about spending 4-5k on a boutique bass. We are talking spending 4-5k on a Fender. Fender are mass produced instruments which use parts that roll on and off assembly lines.
If you take your 5k and got to MTD you are going to get an insanely well-built instrument which features exotic woods and killer playability + sound.
If you take your 5k to Fender, you just paid their marketing department 4k you could have spent on something or somebody else.
We are talking about Fender. This should be front and centre in everybody's minds.
You are not talking about spending 4-5k on a boutique bass. We are talking spending 4-5k on a Fender. Fender are mass produced instruments which use parts that roll on and off assembly lines.
If you take your 5k and got to MTD you are going to get an insanely well-built instrument which features exotic woods and killer playability + sound.
If you take your 5k to Fender, you just paid their marketing department 4k you could have spent on something or somebody else.
OOOOOOO......nice! Your post should ruffle some feathers of the high end Fender owners. As for me I would never pay 5k for a bass..never.
Whoa WHOA. I HIGHLY disagree. The masterbuilt Fenders are not rolled off an assembly line. I mean - fretwire - maybe? But how do you hand-build fretwire?
In my opinion, a Fender Masterbuilt is built with care by a "real" luthier. I believe the time and effort they put in does actually justify the price.
Having said that, I would probably never buy one if I had the means. Not really worth it in my opinion - but I don't see Fender making an 80-90% profit on one of those bad boys.
It probably will, so I should probably put a disclaimer that I have previously owned a Fender Geddy Lee and more recently a Marcus Miller in Olympic White and also a Roscoe Beck V which I would not have sold had it not been for the 19mm string spacing. (The RBV is a fine instrument and one of my fave 5 string basses I've ever played)
I have also tried countless MIA Fenders of all price ranges.
Fender make good instruments. I'm not anti Fender - I just don't believe that you are getting much tangible value over 2k.
I hear you, but where I'm coming from is that even if we consider masterbuilt Fenders, for the same money you are probably going to get better wood, electronics, finishing, attention to detail, bridge etc.
The Fender fans (and I like Fenders) might not like the tone of the other manufacturers, but you are going to get more for your buck. Honestly, take USD 5k and go to Fender... you take the same 5k and go to Roscoe, MTD, Ken Smith etc.
From the other manufacturers you are going to a beautiful exotic top, wonderful necks, fretboards with tremendous fretwork, great brindge, electronics etc etc.
Ah - I get you, then. I kind of thought you were saying Masterbuilt is a marketing ploy where Fender is just raking it in. I bet those guys could make some sick basses --- but it's Fender, so I bet 90%+ of the time, they're working up J's or P's.
- Sep 4, 2010
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- Disclosures
- Endorsing: Martin Keith Guitars
I have a heard time thinking of a boutique builder who AND sources his own woods from the tree level, AND winds his own pickups, AND designs and solders his own preamps from the ground up, AND machines his own bridges and tuning keys and other hardware himself.
Wishbass comes the closest, come to think of it.
If you're handy with setting up your own bass, MIMs are a great deal. Sure there might be a dud here and there but the vast majority of them only differ from the 'merican by getting less TLC in final inspection and setup. You'll get more fret wire overhang that needs to be cleaned up, maybe in need of a better fret dress, but that's usually it.
Who the F#^* is..." Roscoe, MTD, Ken Smith etc"....LOL.Why would i want to buy a COPY of a Fender when Fender offers me every quality and price range possible.
MIM Fenders are outstanding values and very good instruments for the money. I don't get all the MIM bashing. Seems a bit racially biased to me. Especially if considering that almost all Fenders have been made by Mexican shop workers since day 1 and no one started complaining until the "MIM" series started into production.
Oh you must mean Abigail Ybarra whose pickups are prized the world over or the ladies who developed a way to slide the frets is horizontally instead of pounding them in to maple boards to prevent fretboard damage. Dude those "unskilled Mexican girls" WERE master builders. get a clue.:scowl:
Erm.... they aren't copies and are actually superior instruments? Have you ever seen or played Roscoes, MTDs or Ken Smiths?!
Ther'es this site: google.com - you should try it.
You can buy a used MIA for $ 850 or a used MIM classic for $500 a 60% difference in price.
If you want to buy new:
MIA Standard is 70% more expensive than a MIM classic series.
MIA Vintage is 138% more expensive than a MIM classic.
IME the next MIM basses are on the same league than American Standard.
MIA Standard $ 1,349.00
Fender Road Worn $ 1,099.00
Marcus Miller $ 1,199.00
Fender Classic $ 799.00
IME once you hit the $1,000 , you are getting a great quality bass, spending more money don't necessary means that the quality will improve in a drastic way but you are getting fancy woods, a name on the headstock, custom options etc. If the rule that the more you pay the best the bass it is, then many bass players with unlimited budget will be playing a $100,000 bass but the fact is that most of them play basses on the $ 1,000 - $ 1,500 range.
If you want to buy new:
MIA Standard is 70% more expensive than a MIM classic series.
MIA Vintage is 138% more expensive than a MIM classic.
IME the next MIM basses are on the same league than American Standard.
MIA Standard $ 1,349.00
Fender Road Worn $ 1,099.00
Marcus Miller $ 1,199.00
Fender Classic $ 799.00
IME once you hit the $1,000 , you are getting a great quality bass, spending more money don't necessary means that the quality will improve in a drastic way but you are getting fancy woods, a name on the headstock, custom options etc. If the rule that the more you pay the best the bass it is, then many bass players with unlimited budget will be playing a $100,000 bass but the fact is that most of them play basses on the $ 1,000 - $ 1,500 range.
The only "fact" about quality is that it is subjective.
People say more expensive basses are better, and they even say that that's a fact. But there's one major flaw in saying that, so I'll repeat myself: "QUALITY IS SUBJECTIVE".
Whether or not one bass is higher quality than another is whether or not you think it is. If you think an MIA Fender is better than a Squier, you're right. If you think the Squier is better, you're also right.
About the only thing I can think of as a real method of testing quality is tolerance, and one could argue that a bass built to tighter tolerances than another will be of higher quality, but really it just means the quality will be more consistent. And then you have to go and define quality again...
It's a crap shoot. Play what you like, if something isn't worth it to you, it isn't.
People say more expensive basses are better, and they even say that that's a fact. But there's one major flaw in saying that, so I'll repeat myself: "QUALITY IS SUBJECTIVE".
Whether or not one bass is higher quality than another is whether or not you think it is. If you think an MIA Fender is better than a Squier, you're right. If you think the Squier is better, you're also right.
About the only thing I can think of as a real method of testing quality is tolerance, and one could argue that a bass built to tighter tolerances than another will be of higher quality, but really it just means the quality will be more consistent. And then you have to go and define quality again...
It's a crap shoot. Play what you like, if something isn't worth it to you, it isn't.
Geez they were? They only put out those cheap crappy Fenders that Duck Dunn, Jaco, Jamerson, and many other famous bassist played.
You know compared to todays standards those old Crappy Fenders were just cheap production basses. If they only knew they were playing that junk then on those hit records
