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I Thought I'd Seen Everything

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Ric Vice, Aug 23, 2005.


  1. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Well folks, I just saw a Walter Woods Ultra on ebay and the asking
    price is $2,995.00. "Lets Be Careful Out There" "Things will get out of hand" "My God It's Full of Stars"

    Ric :rolleyes:
     
  2. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    I saw that one too. I think someone may have put themselves on Walter's list many times to create the backlog. Now they're trying to sell them at a hefty profit. :(
     
  3. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Well, you know, you could be right about that, but then there's the deposit issue. Walter always used to get half of the money up front for a "firm order" so it would be pretty expensive to place an order more than once, but who knows?

    "This is nucking futs". Dinkie Roberts :)
     
  4. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    Yeah, I've been trying to buy a Woods for a while now and the prices on some of the Ultra models are just insane.

    Another one went for around 3000 and actually sold a couple weeks ago, and then one right before that had bidders going up to 2800ish before it ended.

    All I want is an M-100 or possibly M-300, but the latter of the two is sadly out of my price range because people see a need to sell a used item for more than it cost new.
     
  5. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    It's called fair market value. It's a quality product that didn't lose it's value. I don't think it's based on "need".

    In 20 yrs, will your S&D bass be worth more or less than you paid for it?

    Better yet, I'll give you $1k for it now.
     
  6. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Those prices really do seem out of control. As much as I love my Walter Woods Ultra, and as much as I do think that they will hold their value over time, this smells like a "bubble" to me...
     
  7. I agree with Tom on this. Also, since many players are not 'gear head's' like some of us :D , there's a lack of awareness of the current state of amplification and speakers.... gone are the days when the Walter was the only small, good sounding game in town (see AI, Markbass, Thunderfunk, Eden550, Epifani502, EAiAmp500, etc. ... and gone are the days when you had to settle for a low efficiency cab like the old EA's and Acme's to get decent low end out of a small cab (see Accugroove Tri112, Epifani112UL, EA NL210, GKNeo, LDS2x8, etc, etc., etc.)... not that there's anything wrong with those older cabs... but there's so much other great stuff out there now... much of it at reasonable prices.
     
  8. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    I dunno, I think people are just more and more aware of the inevitable March of Time. When did Leo Fender die? They're still making Fenders. When did Orville Gibson die? They're still making Gibsons.

    When that sad day comes for Walter (and God I hope it's not for another hundred years), there ain't gonna be any more. Testores and Panormos don't command the prices they do because of some artificial "bubble". It's cause you can't go out a get a "new" 250 year old bass.

    SFREUD - alla those amps you mention do sound good. But they are all production models built with off the shelf components. Walter hand wires, hand builds. He doesn't oversee a staff from his office, he's in the garage building amps. As he says, if he's spending too much time answering the phone, he's not building amps. That doesn't happen with your Eden World Traveler. BUt the other thing, these amps are TANKS. My Baby Blue had to have work, I know guys with Edens, they've had to have work. I know guys who have had Woods for 30 years, touring the world, doing 200, 250 dates a year with NO PROBLEMS EVER. Maybe replaced a frayed power cord.

    Yeah, it's a lot of bread. If Walter's selling them cheaper and you can hang the waiting list, get it from him. Cause that's what you're paying for, with the ebay guy. To jump the waiting list.
     
  9. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Chicago, IL
    I don't think it is fair, Freddels. But I am about to buy an M-100 for a price I think is reasonable, so it doesn't much matter now.
     
  10. I guess I agree with you.... however, I own most of the amps I mentioned and have a WW Ultra..... all I'm saying is there are some very good, small, lighweight low cost options out there in addition to the Walter for extreme volume, clean sound, and perfect reliability... you couldn't say that IMO even 10 years ago (also, by the way, Thunderfunk is handmade by David Funk, and the AI stuff and the iAmp stuff are at least directly supervised by the original designers) . Things really have changed. If you want to buy a Walter, by all means go for it (I'm on my 3rd over the last 15 years!)... but, wanted to share my experiences with other recently introduced small heads... some of which I actually prefer over my Walter for their tone shaping ability, extended low end response, warmth, etc.... although that's personal taste. Also, to put this in context, my experience is with semi-acoustic fretless bass guitar, some EUB's and EB.... not DB... however, I've been a small amp fanatic as long as anyone... so every once in a while I feel its OK to post my experiences on the amps portion of this site.
     
  11. Freddels

    Freddels Musical Anarchist

    Apr 7, 2005
    Sutton, MA
    I think you'll like the MI-100. What does fair have to do with it? Just b/c you want to buy one and the person that has one wants more than they paid for it 20 yrs ago?

    When you get the MI-100, hold onto it for 20 yrs and you'll probably be able to sell it for more than you pay for it (I know it's not fair but that's life).

    So I guess my $1k offer is rejected?
     
  12. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    NYC
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    NO thanks, I'm happy with the one I have. It's about 8 years old now? I'll have to check the receipt.

    You are more than welcome to post your experiences. Just as I am.
     
  13. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY

    What he said. You can't really put it any better than that. Much as I love my AI stuff, I'd love to get my mitts on a WW Ultra...but it's not $3K worth of GAS.
     
  14. I didn't mean 'literally you'... I know you own one... I was speaking about other players who are considering a Walter but are in pain over the cost and might not be aware of some other very nice, recent options :) Just trying to be helpful in the spirit of this wonderful site.
     
  15. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    When I originally found the ad on ebay my initial (hippie, 60's, radical) reaction was boycott! But then I looked into what the
    seller was doing. From looking at his other items it "looks like a fire sale to me." He could have some other items, but he isn't offering multiple Walter Woods Ultras at above list prices.
    I do have to agree with Ken that there are other choices out
    there that weren't there before, thanks to Acoustic Image, Euphonic Arts and perhaps Thunderfunk. That said, to this point, I've only had four amps in my professional carrer and three of them are red with a WW on them. But I'm always on the lookout for a sucessor, because I know their will be one.
    "When that sad day comes for Walter (and God I hope it's not for another hundred years), there ain't gonna be any more. Testores and Panormos don't command the prices they do because of some artificial "bubble". It's cause you can't go out a get a "new" 250 year old bass".

    Ed has a very good point, and I don't want to even think about
    replacing my Walter Woods 'cause it gives me the willies. That said, their will be a day when all the Testores and Panormos are
    gone, it will be a very sad day, but it will happen. My guess (it's only a guess mind you) is that the Walter Woods will all be gone
    well before that time, because electronics change so fast. If you look at different models of Walter's amps from different periods
    the design had to change to accomidate the availbiliy of certian parts.
    Handbuilt amps sound great because they are built one at a time and Walter's the masterbuilder when it comes to this. They
    are extremely reliable, for that reason. So reliable that I have only had one breakdown with my first MI 100, other than that
    I had Walter replace a power cord one time.

    What concerns me is that there are players out their that
    actually deserve a Woods and probably can't get their hands on
    one. Granted, Your bass, your sound, and your technique, should
    be the first things you really work toward, Amplifiers are not the
    most important thing, but a really good amp can be a
    great assett, especially if you're a Jazz bassists. Unfortunately it looks like you're build up your assets if you aren't lucky enough to have a unlimited supply of cash.

    Ric
     
  16. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I recently spoke to Walter. There are certain models (older)
    that he can no longer fix. The parts just aren't being made
    anymore, and the newer available parts don't work right.
    I have a feeling that when Walter hangs it up, fixing these
    amps could be next to impossible. I don't think its quite as
    good an envestment if you can't fix it. Also.... are you guys sure about the wait time? When I've asked him, the wait time
    has been a few month at the most. (for ultra's)
     
  17. I've had no wait time for any of the Walter's that I've purchased. I think it is incredibly variable based on the number of orders he has at the time, and what he has on his plate. I had a buddy that called up about a month ago and Walter was ready to send him a brand new Ultra that day!
     
  18. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    That's why although I have a MI 400 I'm not sure if I would
    invest in a used one at this time. I just don't know. Walter builds 'em to last as long as the can, but he can't build them to last
    indefinitely. Since we are living in the age of planned obsolescence and throw away technology he's fighting an uphill
    battle. I think what I'd like to see Walter eventually do is train
    some apprentice to design amps like he does, because Walter's
    got this mastery of knowing how to build a great preamp. I think
    that's the key. IMHO


    Ric

    PS: I think I'll go and lie down now
    :
     
  19. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Boy, some of you guys are so hung up on tone that you'll jump through any hoops! Woods amps are great, no doubt, but I'll be damned if I would ever jump through his hoops. Especially if he can't fix older amps because he can't get the parts.