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I tune my bass slightly flat when recording. Is that wrong?
- Thread starter Santol
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- flat intonation recording tune
If the open string is tuned and fretted notes are sharp, then I'll bet that the bridge is out and needs adjusted (flat forward, sharp backwards) a bit for the string(s). Check the open against the 12th and see the difference. I tune to open and 12th fret when I change strings and look for any changes that may have occurred and fix then and there. After that, I tune just open strings. It should be about as consistent as possible across the fingerboard after that.
If your intonation is okay, and you're saying the notes fretted down near the nut (frets 1-5ish) are worse, your nut is probably not cut deep enough, so the action at the nut is too high. This is very common for basses that have not been set up after being shipped from the factory.
Either way, take it to a tech with a new set of your preferred strings (easier to set up a bass w/ fresh strings so they're not deformed where they contact the frets at all) and have him/her set up your bass with your strings to your preferred action.
Either way, take it to a tech with a new set of your preferred strings (easier to set up a bass w/ fresh strings so they're not deformed where they contact the frets at all) and have him/her set up your bass with your strings to your preferred action.
Extremely close. Close enough that I wouldn't be tempted to intentionally tune flat.
It is odd that you have perfect intonation at the 12th fret yet notes in between open and 12 aren't ringing true. People check and adjust intonation a lot of different ways, some much better than others. I'd need to see your bass in person to know for sure, but everything so far points to set-up issues such as high nut slots, action, or too much relief.
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sometimes i will intonate the bass at the 9th fret. crazy idea? sure. but it helps the bass sound more 'in tune' to me from the 1st to the 12th fret.
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
I'm another fan of DIY, but there's only so far you can go sometimes. Seems like you may have reached your limit. A setup isn't terribly costly, and will likely alleviate your issue. You can always do what I did- get a setup, then take measurements, and try to replicate it on another instrument, until you can get it feeling and playing the same.
Bassist4Eris
Frat-Pack Sympathizer
This has already been said, but maybe if enough of us say it we can drown out the noise. Fret slots. Too high. Get them filed down.
There doesn't always have to be a "perfect" situation going on in the lowest register. Generally, lower notes are more "forgiving to the ear" for being minutely out of perfect tune versus higher notes. However, if you can easily discern an out of tune situation - and are having to compensate by down tuning for recording purposes, then there is a problem. As others have stated, the nut slots are <probably> much too high - most are already this way from the factory. A properly cut nut will make the lower notes easier to fret and reduce (if not eliminate) the audible, out-of-tune situation you have going on.
I'm no professional luthier by any means, but it sounds like in your situation a neck shim may be in order too. The neck, for unknown reasons, seems like it can't handle that gauge of strings. I don't know if the truss rod can (or should) be adjusted any further. I'm all about DIY, but in a case like yours and on a vintage instrument it may be worth it to seek out a professional opinion to get the problems sorted out.
For most other situations, I always fall back on instructional videos for reminders/refreshers when doing my setups:
I'm no professional luthier by any means, but it sounds like in your situation a neck shim may be in order too. The neck, for unknown reasons, seems like it can't handle that gauge of strings. I don't know if the truss rod can (or should) be adjusted any further. I'm all about DIY, but in a case like yours and on a vintage instrument it may be worth it to seek out a professional opinion to get the problems sorted out.
For most other situations, I always fall back on instructional videos for reminders/refreshers when doing my setups:
pretty freaking close.... I only have to "detune" if I'm playing with a slightly out of tune piano or something...
All right. Thanks for the suggestions.
I'll continue through the sessions (I need this specific sound for a few songs we're recording) tuning it a little off just as a workaround, but will get the bass fixed in the near future. It's a special instrument and doesn't deserve being out shape like that.
I'll continue through the sessions (I need this specific sound for a few songs we're recording) tuning it a little off just as a workaround, but will get the bass fixed in the near future. It's a special instrument and doesn't deserve being out shape like that.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
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Frets near the nut typically sound a little sharp. Also, all frets are a compromise. The only way to have "perfect" intonation without pitch correction is to play fretless very very well. That said, the JND (just noticeable difference) in pitch is significantly larger in 100ths of a semitone as one approaches the lowest registers of our hearing.
yeah, that does not sound right - at all.
Get your bass to a shop and have someone set it up / intonate it.
Get your bass to a shop and have someone set it up / intonate it.
When recording, I often tune a little flat if the guitar is playing a lot of the same notes on the octave higher. This helps separate the bass and guitar in the mix. Sometimes when the guitar and bass are in perfect tune, they create a chorus effect. I've noticed this doing a cover recording of Cream's "Sunshine of your Love" song. I suspect Jack Bruce bent those bass notes to avoid the chorus effect.
Playing a little flat or sharp can separate any instrument in the mix. Lee Oskar's harmonicas are tuned a little off to make it stand out in the harmony. Some people like it some don't. What ever works.
Playing a little flat or sharp can separate any instrument in the mix. Lee Oskar's harmonicas are tuned a little off to make it stand out in the harmony. Some people like it some don't. What ever works.
Hmm... That was interesting. Maybe I shouldn't be obsessed about this whole thing in the first place.
It's not like they're a half step sharp. Just a little sharp and only noticed when monitoring through a chromatic tuner. Otherwise I'd never know I had a problem.
Am I the only one here who intonates my bass?
Oh and, Flats have nothing to do with the equation. I played high tension flats on my P for years, and had super low action. I actually think the higher tension helps, not hinders the ability to drop action because you're not slamming wet noodles around.
Oh and, Flats have nothing to do with the equation. I played high tension flats on my P for years, and had super low action. I actually think the higher tension helps, not hinders the ability to drop action because you're not slamming wet noodles around.
I appreciate learning how to do it yourself. After checking the nut, frets, and bridge, figure out how much relief you have in the neck. I forget the exact measurement, but something around a business card in thickness at the 7th fret when holding down the strings at the 1st and 12th fret (I hold down the string at the end of the neck instead) is a good starting point. If the truss rod is very hard to tighten - do not force it (break the rod and you are paying for a very expensive repair)! I would recommend taking the strings off and checking to make sure the threads are ok on the truss rod nut (take the nut off and look it over, possibly retapping it to clean up the threads - again, be sure to get the thread correct). If the problem is still a bowed neck, you can snug up the truss rod until it gets hard to turn with the string at tension. Then, place a 24" metal level with wood blocks under each end of the neck (on the first and second frets and the last two frets or so). Place a wood clamp in the middle of the neck with one jaw on the bottom of the neck and the other jaw on top of the level (be sure to use large rubber jaws or a rag to not mark or damage the neck). You can slowly tighten the clamp to make the neck straighter and then snug up the truss rod nut without requiring any force (be careful in how much force you apply to the clamp - the neck should not need an excessive amount of force). If the truss rod nut bottoms out, place a small spacer or washers (same diameter as the truss rod nut) under the nut. A final note is to release the clamp slowly when you are done to not transfer a shock to the truss rod.
As others have mentioned, if you have any concerns about doing the work yourself, have a professional do it. I handle setups myself, but I pay some else to do frets and nuts.
As others have mentioned, if you have any concerns about doing the work yourself, have a professional do it. I handle setups myself, but I pay some else to do frets and nuts.
It's an old bass and I think J neck is apparently struggling to stay flat. Heavy flat string are pulling that thing very strongly. I had light rounds before and it wasn't bowing that much.
