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I turned off my bass......nobody noticed!
- Thread starter Dantreige
- Start date
@ hdracer
Yep, Carvin Red Eye in to the P.A. We are all very conservative on stage volume. Our drummer is not ham-fisted either, so it helps to keep it low on stage.
In my opionion, the guitar player is good (not great) for staying on his end of the frequency spectrum.
I think over all, I just need to cool off and then explain to everyone that this is not acceptable. If it happens for any reason other then we are in a horse-!@$# room, I am gone.
I'm not hauling thousands of dollars of gear to a gig to be a placeholder.
Yep, Carvin Red Eye in to the P.A. We are all very conservative on stage volume. Our drummer is not ham-fisted either, so it helps to keep it low on stage.
In my opionion, the guitar player is good (not great) for staying on his end of the frequency spectrum.
I think over all, I just need to cool off and then explain to everyone that this is not acceptable. If it happens for any reason other then we are in a horse-!@$# room, I am gone.
I'm not hauling thousands of dollars of gear to a gig to be a placeholder.
Sound to me like you need monitors and a new sound guy, sometimes when every thing is via the pa you get used to not being able to hear all the mix on stage - possibly everyone trying their best to get their sound out and not listening to the "sound that's not there?"
1/Fire the sound guy
2/Go back to backline that you can hear
3/Get monitors
Don't quit!
1/Fire the sound guy
2/Go back to backline that you can hear
3/Get monitors
Don't quit!
Ummm...they clearly are too loud and don't notice or don't care.
I suggest sitting them down and telling that you are leaving and why. There are plenty of bands around that would kill for a good, solid bass player. You don't need to be wasting your time with people who don't appreciate you.
I suggest sitting them down and telling that you are leaving and why. There are plenty of bands around that would kill for a good, solid bass player. You don't need to be wasting your time with people who don't appreciate you.
We have a four monitors with four monitor mixes. I don't know how to get any better then that without in-ears.
We play mainly small bars. (Less then 100 people.) Maybe I should leave the subs at home (I'd add a 1x15 to the bottom of my rig and bi amp) . Then I could be certain I was heard.
We are almost always around 95-98 db in the FOH if anyone was wondering how loud we play. (Some bars we play have limits we need to stay under and are enforced by the local police.)
Wish I could suggest a solution but....
The root problem is that people hear what they want to hear in music. That's why recording yourself and then listening back with an objective ear is a required training aid.
Thing is there are a lot of folks out there who literally believe the guitar drives the groove, the predominant rhythm element is the kick drum on 1 and 3, and the bass has no role. They listen to the car radio a lot, attend WASP churches, and clap on the 1 and 3. There are a lot of them.
I have an on-going debate with our sound man about this topic. Interesting event occurred a week ago when we went to one of the local indie clubs for an audition. The sound guy there mixed us with a far more experienced concept of the mix, and I'll tell you the bass was way front and center.
What is required is to listen with high objectivity to recordings on a true studio quality monitor and listen for which elements are where in the mix. Thing is, if the person's mind is already made up, you won't be able to influence them. So, you need to navigate the discussion more in the direction of a neutral re-assessment. My 2c opinion and no offense intended to anyone. I believe this is a common issue. Really experienced sound people will get it right, but there are a lot of well intentioned relatively unaware folks out there.
The root problem is that people hear what they want to hear in music. That's why recording yourself and then listening back with an objective ear is a required training aid.
Thing is there are a lot of folks out there who literally believe the guitar drives the groove, the predominant rhythm element is the kick drum on 1 and 3, and the bass has no role. They listen to the car radio a lot, attend WASP churches, and clap on the 1 and 3. There are a lot of them.
I have an on-going debate with our sound man about this topic. Interesting event occurred a week ago when we went to one of the local indie clubs for an audition. The sound guy there mixed us with a far more experienced concept of the mix, and I'll tell you the bass was way front and center.
What is required is to listen with high objectivity to recordings on a true studio quality monitor and listen for which elements are where in the mix. Thing is, if the person's mind is already made up, you won't be able to influence them. So, you need to navigate the discussion more in the direction of a neutral re-assessment. My 2c opinion and no offense intended to anyone. I believe this is a common issue. Really experienced sound people will get it right, but there are a lot of well intentioned relatively unaware folks out there.
What are you using for a PA? Maybe the reason the soundman doesn't have you in the mix is because your PA isn't up to the task. EDIT just looked at your profile and since you have subs then your PA shouldn't be the problem.
We play similar sized bars (maybe up to 250) we run mainly a vocal PA and backline with 2 monitors running a mix of vocal / guitar (if its an acoustic)
I can always hear the guitar from my position and if I walk over to the guitarist I can hear myself, we are considered to be pretty loud.
We have trimmed all the excesses of the PA over the years and gone for a simple (quality over quantity) model. Simple is better! IMO
I can always hear the guitar from my position and if I walk over to the guitarist I can hear myself, we are considered to be pretty loud.
We have trimmed all the excesses of the PA over the years and gone for a simple (quality over quantity) model. Simple is better! IMO
Fender P-Lyte (EMG Upgraded)
Carvin Red Eye 2x10 Combo
Carvin PA-
C1644 Mixer
DCM 2000 Amp
DCM 1000 Amp
Carvin X-Over
(2x) Behringer Dual 15 Band EQ (monitors)
Art Compressor
(4x) Carvin 12 Inch Monitors
Seinheiser Vocal Mic
Qsc 300 Watt Stereo Amp (Monitors)
Peavey CS 800 Amp (Monitors)
(2x) Carvin 15-Horn High Mid Cabs
(2x) Carvin 18 Inch Subs
Make fun of my gear. It has served me well.
Pod xt Live (Works well as a tuner and for home practice.)
That's the gist of it. The P.A. is not awesome, but it is more then enough for our needs. Was fine on a few outdoor shows. (I would want more for more then 100 people.)
I see alot of people on these forums that do not mic drums or use subs for the the size of room that I usually play. Maybe that is part of it. I should bring a full stack and then I'll know that everyone will hear me and there won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it.
Rather than jumping to conclusions or assuming that your bandmates, souendman, and audience don't care and that you're completely irrelevent, it's probably better to just ask the people involved. Ask the soundman "Why am I not mixed up a little louder so I can be heard better FOH?" Ask your bandmates "How's my level on stage?" Ask your wife "Could you hear me OK out front? Did you notice when I dropped out?" Etc.
You may find that they noticed but didn't comment (I sure don't consult with my bandmates every time someone forgets a set of changes or a wireless dies), or maybe they've just gotten used to not hearing much of you in the interest of keeping overall volume under control.
You may find that they noticed but didn't comment (I sure don't consult with my bandmates every time someone forgets a set of changes or a wireless dies), or maybe they've just gotten used to not hearing much of you in the interest of keeping overall volume under control.
Another suggestion would be next time you have your mains set up, put the covered tunes on and request an objective mix analysis. Since you are covering, the objective is to somewhat reflect the original. Request them to rank where they hear different elements. Most times actual order is something like, vox or guitar leads, snare, bass, guitars, rest of drum kit etc. I bet they are also missing the snare shots on the backbeat; that's also a common issue IME. Anyhow, you need to somehow get them to constructively re-evaluate what they are doing.
GL
GL
Why not bump up your mids and turn up your volume a little. That should help you cut through.
The others probably didn't notice because they were never really able to hear you before so when you shut off your bass, it just sounded the same as always to them or they did notice that they sounded a little dead but chalked it up to room acoustics or an audio problem. Just a few guesses.
The others probably didn't notice because they were never really able to hear you before so when you shut off your bass, it just sounded the same as always to them or they did notice that they sounded a little dead but chalked it up to room acoustics or an audio problem. Just a few guesses.
had this myself before with a cover band...no drums..sound guy telling me that the bass was taking over everything..got this for a good few nights and i tried to explain it what the guitar and the bass drum from the drum Machine ..long story shortnext gig i never wired the amp up and never bothered to plug in to the guitar.he comes up again same story turn down, this was mid song by the way so i took the bass of and handed it to him and asked him to show me how because i cant work it out!!
I really sympathise with you and hope you can resolve it amicably. If not move on to where you are appreciated.
I would take your full stack to the next gig, then only you are in charge of your volume. If anyone complains then point out the fact that you turned off your bass and no-one noticed.
I know that most of the punters have cloth ears but someone in the band should have realised.
I used to be in a band where the keys player thought that the only important sound was his and the lead singer. At rehearsals he would ask me to turn down because 'he could hear me'. I don't normally play loud but I will make an exception, like then.
Fortunately I now play in a 3 piece where the guitarist appreciates what I do and complains if he cannot hear me, both my bass and vocals.
I would take your full stack to the next gig, then only you are in charge of your volume. If anyone complains then point out the fact that you turned off your bass and no-one noticed.
I know that most of the punters have cloth ears but someone in the band should have realised.
I used to be in a band where the keys player thought that the only important sound was his and the lead singer. At rehearsals he would ask me to turn down because 'he could hear me'. I don't normally play loud but I will make an exception, like then.
Fortunately I now play in a 3 piece where the guitarist appreciates what I do and complains if he cannot hear me, both my bass and vocals.
This is really about the soundman. The other guys may just like to hear themselves in their monitors. The soundman is the one out front who should be making sure you have a proper mix. I would have a band meeting (soundguy not included) and tell them why you think he isnt doing a good job. If an instrument COMPLETELY dissapears (any instrument) The soundman should be all over it. Letting 2 complete songs go without one instrument is just proof that he isnt doing what he should be.
whether its loud enough or not is a seperate point, the fact that no one noticed is the main thing id say, ouch. i play metal stuff so theres a lot of noise and bass is a culprit for not being heard, but its the kindof thing where you notice it immediately once you take it away. in a 3 piece like yours it shouldve been obvious to everyone.
first place id start is with the sound man.
then go to your band mates and explore it in a light hearted fashion
just explain what you did and blame it on the sound guy. he is in need of a verbal judo lesson.
i know for sure that if i did something similar the sound guy would be freakin out in seconds and my band mates would be staring at me.
if that is not the case then there are major issues. i appreciate your experience and all that but there are questions that need answered.
then go to your band mates and explore it in a light hearted fashion
just explain what you did and blame it on the sound guy. he is in need of a verbal judo lesson.
i know for sure that if i did something similar the sound guy would be freakin out in seconds and my band mates would be staring at me.
if that is not the case then there are major issues. i appreciate your experience and all that but there are questions that need answered.
... I should bring a full stack and then I'll know that everyone will hear me and there won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it.
yep....
