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ID This Bad A*$ Ric Copy!

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Quadzilla, Jan 14, 2010.


  1. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Yep, I think that we have winner. I'm now 99.9% certain that this is a Heerby (Kasuga Japan) RB800!

    http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/Mowchai/Heerby RB800/
     
  2. ghoulsfiendclub

    ghoulsfiendclub

    Dec 17, 2006
    Portugal
    case solved

    nice bass man
     
  3. kcole4001

    kcole4001

    Oct 7, 2009
    Nova Scotia
    One of the nicest copies I've seen. Quite well done.

    I'm not really a maple fingerboard fan, though.

    The good copies that I've seen listed (briefly) have only been priced a few hundred short of a real Rick, if that.
    They are actually much more rare, and probably could be considered to be very collectable in their own right, though hard to trade legally (in North America, anyway).
     
  4. They're becoming rare enough that waiting for a real Ric is almost worth it, if that's your thing. Rickenbacker's price increase caused the market to spike. It has since settled, but copies are still a bit higher than they are probably "worth" (REAL subjective term, I know). I've seen real Rics for less than what some of the copies sell for here. My own craigslist had one for $600 last month, and it wasn't the first. Glad you were able to find a copy at a good price.

    Mike
     
  5. kcole4001

    kcole4001

    Oct 7, 2009
    Nova Scotia
    I've heard of quite a few real Ricks selling not too far from me for between $800 and $1000 Cdn.
    There's just not a big market locally. If I had come across them, I'd have snagged them quick, though. I paid $400 for my 4001, needed some work, but well worth it.

    The only copy I have seen in person was a black one branded 'ElectricBass' on the TRC. It was a good copy aesthetically, but very poorly looked after and was a complete POS by then, I didn't plug it in or inquire about the price. I was quite happy to have my 4000, and didn't need any junk.
     
  6. mr.mow

    mr.mow

    Feb 11, 2009
    Melbourne
    Endorsing Artist: BBE/G&L Basses
    Ah, from the same factory.. But your would not likely have been a heerby as the heerbys had the Grover tuners.. (take a tuner off see if it's been redrilled).

    I'd be guessing it was one of the made by kasuga basses for a foreign importer such as univox.

    I'm doubting many heerbys ever made it out of japan, mine was a glorious bass it really was, had a sound my modern 4003 just couldn't touch.
     
  7. McHaven

    McHaven

    Mar 1, 2005
    Most of all the lawsuit basses all came from the same factories and just had a different brand name slapped on them. I have typically seen the maple board only on the Electras and Univoxes.
     
  8. I have a Univox that I bought in '77 and the output jack looks the same as the OP's pic and labeled "Standard" and "Stereosound". It has only one truss rod.
     
  9. 69'Vette

    69'Vette

    Jan 28, 2003
    Cedar Hills, UT
    I know it was sort of ID'd already, but for the record, the two Grecos I've owned both had serial numbers stamped on the rear of the headstock. Also, binding being missing from under the bridge is common on Rics but I think my Greco with binding had it all the way around..

    70sGreco4001SIII. 70sGreco4001SbodyIV.

    GrecoRickenhoheadstock. GrecoRickenhoheadstockback.

    77grecorichobody.
    I couldn't find a headstock pic, but this is the other Greco I had.

    4003_angled.
    '03 4003 (note binding)

    Ah hell, looking through my photobucket shots I found this I must have snagged somewhere:

    Greco4001II.

    I guess that shoots my serial number comment all to shreds. :D

    grecoric-1. grecoricbody-1.
    Another Greco formerly owned by an internet friend, Aussie Mark

    Greco4001Srefinish010. Greco4001Srefinish006.

    The Greco I want!
     
  10. The quality of these imposters is amazing. I can see how someone could be easily fooled.

    Why would it be hard to trade one of these in North America? I've seen some dealers in Gbase.com who sell these (used ones) from time to time, who state clearly that they are copies. If a person already owns one how would it be illegal to sell or trade it? How could something like that be enforced?
     
  11. Musky

    Musky

    Nov 5, 2005
    UK
    You'd have to ask John Hall about that one. :meh:

    All the key design features of a Rick are registered as trademarks, so whether or not they're sold as copies or have another brand on it they'll infringe if they even look close. Ebay auctions for the strange little bass versions of the 330 that went under the Shaftesbury banner have been closed down, even though RIC have never produced a bass that looked like the 330.

    I guess they'll issue a take down as and when they see it, though some dealers may be more prone to ignoring any threat of legal action. When it comes to ebay though, they'll remove it without any questions through their Vero scheme. The definition of 'trade' seems to be a little different in the UK, in that a private sale doesn't seem to be regarded as a trade under trademark laws (though I'm a long way from being lawyer), so getting a faker might be a little easier. Ebay will still close down UK auctions without warning though - I guess they just don't want the hassle.
     
  12. Looks like I have it. Bought it from a fellow TB'er.

    DSCN1642.
    DSCN1637.
    DSCN1638.
     
  13. kcole4001

    kcole4001

    Oct 7, 2009
    Nova Scotia
    It's not illegal to own one, it is illegal to sell one.
    You already answered your own question (see bold type above).
    Slap a real TRC on one and someone will be getting ripped off.
    There are usually signs that the bass is a copy, but you have to do your research beforehand to spot 'em.
    Not hard to do once you know, but ya gotta know first...

    Again, so it's clear, RIC polices the public sales of these because BY LAW they are REQUIRED to do so to keep from losing their trademark.
    If they let it slide, even once, there is precedent established, and anyone and their dog can then start producing copies (which could become misrepresented and sold as real Ricks) claiming that: "so-and-so was allowed to do so, why not me too?"
    And legally, they'd be in the right, at least partially.
    That's why RIC gets all public sales (ebay, etc.) removed, and that's why they are removed: they are illegal.
    Ebay wouldn't take 'em down (often within an hour of their posting) if they weren't REQUIRED to, again, BY LAW!

    It is THE LAW, not someone's personal interpretation, it is written out in so many terms, and not negotiable whether it's popular or not, it is their legal right, and they enforce it or risk losing those rights.

    It's quite simple, whether one likes it or not, I'm not flag waving or defending Mr. Hall or RIC, just stating a documented fact.

    Making unlicensed copies of anything is trademark infringement, the same as trading in unlicensed copies of movies, music, any consumer goods, etc.
    It's big business in China and elsewhere, lots of people do it, but it's still illegal.

    Personally, I think some of those copies are quite nice looking, particularly that blueburst Greco, I can tell it's not a real Rick, but someone else might not.

    Selling a copy as the real deal is wrong, and it's fraud, no different than representing a Squier as a vintage pre CBS Fender, it's not made less wrong because one doesn't agree with the company's politics.
    Just sayin' a lot of people seem to think it's OK to sell copies of Ricks but jump all over someone trying to sell a rebadged Squier as a Fender.

    No difference, legally or morally.
    None whatsoever.
     
  14. ProfGumby

    ProfGumby

    Jan 15, 2007
    Michigan's U.P.
    Soooooo much pseudo Ric pron here, I think I may need a towel....

    Seriously, some of the copies are absolutely flawless and desireable. Don't be a hater JH cause I'm lovin some of the copies....fact is some of these are every bit as good as the real deal, and 1/3 - 1/2 the price.

    Still want me a Jetglow 4003 though....abnd since the Ric squad is most likely watching this thread, BRING BACK THE CHECKERBOARD BINDING!
     
  15. If that's the case, did the TB'er who sold the other TB'er that Rick copy(detailed in the thread above) do something illegal?

    And if it's illegal, can Rickenbacker shut down Talkbass.com?
     
  16. Hope not...I've got one in the classifieds!
     
  17. kcole4001

    kcole4001

    Oct 7, 2009
    Nova Scotia
    They can make the host remove any listings or relevant info.
    The host must comply.
    And yes, the sale, whether by a private person or by a business, is still illegal.

    One can get away with it if RIC doesn't spot it, but you have to 'fly under their radar'.
    Technically they could sue, but it's really only feasible if someone is making a lot of transactions.
    The private citizen is not really the target, they're just trying to keep their reputation and intellectual property intact.


    Is the private sale legal: no, is it immoral, I'd say no, but from RICs perspective, it could possibly lead to that bass being sold as a real Rick someday.

    Probably not going to happen, but it could, if it comes around to an unscrupulous person.

    As we know, most folks here don't fit that description, but the next guy might not be so conscientious.

    Ebay and Craigslist are the most common targets, as they're the highest profile.
     
  18. kcole4001

    kcole4001

    Oct 7, 2009
    Nova Scotia
    I've spent a few years browsing Rick specific fora trying to learn more about the brand and this discussion has come up more often than any other.
    It's usually the most misunderstood.

    The basses (and guitars) that are easily distinguishable from the real thing aren't really much of a threat to RIC, but the close copies are the most likely to be trouble down the road, no matter how good one's intentions may be now.

    An exteme example: we might keep a copy our entire life, but at the estate sale it may get in the hands of someone looking for a fast buck.
    It's not that hard to fake a TRC that says 'Rickenbacker' to increase the apparent value for the next sale.
    There's always someone somewhere who can be fooled.

    I know of one guy in my own town who bought a Chinese copy of a 325 guitar (John Lennon type) and was told "it is one of those rare ones without a serial number".
    He believed it.
    He was ripped off.
     
  19. DerHoggz

    DerHoggz I like cats :| Banned

    Feb 13, 2009
    Western Pennsylvania
    That bass is like 99.9% maple!!!!!
     
  20. Evil Undead

    Evil Undead

    Oct 31, 2009
    Ok, I'm still a little confused after reading through all this

    The gist I'm getting is that in the UK, it's not illegal to own a copy of a ric as long as it's clearly obvious that it is a copy. Is that correct?
    So, if someone sells it and makes it clear that it's a copy (TRC doesn't have ric on it etc) is that illegal in the UK?
     

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