Ideas for full-band PA in tiny low-volume venues

[N. Kentucky Bass]

PA newbie here looking for practical advice. I want to create a simple PA system to amplify all instruments and voices for performance in nursing homes and assisted living centers. Very important to have tight control of sound at low levels for the 80-100 year olds. Typically, the band in these venues is physically almost mixed into the audience as space is limited. Music will be from the 1940s-70s, mostly vocals based.

Max of 8 channels is required. Instruments to include keys, guitar, bass, and electronic drums (or acoustic percussion -- i.e. not a drum kit). Vox for 2-3 channels. Some instruments would not require amplification (e.g. trumpet, trombone, sax).

For speakers, would this work?

• Two 10-inch mains (or two "stick" speakers). Would 8-inch mains be adequate?
• One 12-inch subwoofer. I understand smaller subs aren't worth it?
• One or two 8-inch floor monitors

How much system wattage would be necessary for this use case?

No requirement to "expand" this PA for larger venues. I'd probably want the mixer to include "send" jacks on each channel for recording individual tracks to a Zoom F8. Anything else I should consider?

Open to ideas! Thank you!

 

[Not Insane]

My band has a little mixer plugged into a single one of the speaker in the picture below. We put it behind the band and it becomes our monitors as well. The tall array uses the comb effect to pretty much eliminate any feedback. And this is in small clubs where we play much louder than you would in a nursing home. We have two but only use one. Sounds amazing. Our band is acoustic guitar, lead electric guitar, electronic drum machine, bass and two vocalists.

 

[Not Insane]

I should add that load in and out is a breeze. Seriously. It's almost too easy. We're all over 70 so it matters. In fact, Here is a picture of us using it at our favorite place (note, the guitar player insisted on bringing his favorite boutique tube guitar amp to that one. That was also before we got serious about cable management (BTW, I'm on bass):

 

[MrLenny1]

We ran a used Yamaha powered mixer, very compact, for 4 years with no issues.
Check into Neo speakers & agree that a sub should be 12" minimum.

 

[superheavyfunk]

My band has a little mixer plugged into a single one of the speaker in the picture below. We put it behind the band and it becomes our monitors as well. The tall array uses the comb effect to pretty much eliminate any feedback. And this is in small clubs where we play much louder than you would in a nursing home. We have two but only use one. Sounds amazing. Our band is acoustic guitar, lead electric guitar, electronic drum machine, bass and two vocalists.
View attachment 7007189

I second this. Instead of the Bose, I bought a H&K Polar 10. We use it for weddings, small venues and rehearsals to good effect. The 10" sub is plenty… we've not found any reason to want to upgrade to a 12" one and the PA itself is quite loud.

It has four inputs: 2x mic/line combo jacks, 1x 1/4" jack, and 1x aux/bluetooth. When we need more inputs, we just use a small behringer mixer.

Like @Not Insane said, load in/out is stupid easy. It comes apart into 3 pieces, all of which have their own carrying case and easily fits in the trunk of the car along with all of my bass rig, with room to spare for the other amps and instruments. Definitely a good investment!

 

[pfschim]

+1 on the small stick/array with sub solution to small venue, small sound needs.

I sub with a trio that does modest sized venues at very controlled volumes. He uses one of the Bose stick/array + sub system and places it behind the band. His has the expanded mixer add-on and we all go direct into it and it sounds pretty great actually. To me, it's not night & day easier than small boxes (8" 2 way) powered mains on sticks and a small sub, but it does seem a bit simpler to put up and tear down and does the job just fine.

good luck!

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I should add that load in and out is a breeze. Seriously. It's almost too easy. We're all over 70 so it matters. In fact, Here is a picture of us using it at our favorite place (note, the guitar player insisted on bringing his favorite boutique tube guitar amp to that one. That was also before we got serious about cable management (BTW, I'm on bass):
View attachment 7007194

So you don't need a floor monitor or two to hear yourselves?

 

[Not Insane]

So you don't need a floor monitor or two to hear yourselves?

Nope. Because the speaker is behind us we hear what the crowd hears. Works great. And you don't have floor monitors fighting with the FOH sound. Love it.

 

[LowWay]

And you don't get feedback from the vocal mics?

 

[Not Insane]

And you don't get feedback from the vocal mics?

Nope. Comb effect. The mics only hear the speaker in the same horizontal plane. If you turn it up loud enough you will get feedback, but we have yet to have that problem.

I first experimented with these type of speakers when I got a bunch of used matching PC speakers about 16 years ago and bolted them to an 8' aluminum tube and put speakers on the top six feet. That band used two of them and, with a sub it sounded fantastic. As our guitar playing singer said when we first tried it, "I sound like myself, only louder." And the same effect keeps it from being too loud for the musicians. We only hear the speakers at ear level. It's the old "Grateful Dead wall of sound in a stick. The back of the stadium hears all the speakers, but the front only hears the speakers closest to their ear level. So volume is surprisingly level throughout the venue. BTW, Gratefull dead wall:

 

[Jakeahearts]

I should add that load in and out is a breeze. Seriously. It's almost too easy. We're all over 70 so it matters. In fact, Here is a picture of us using it at our favorite place (note, the guitar player insisted on bringing his favorite boutique tube guitar amp to that one. That was also before we got serious about cable management (BTW, I'm on bass):
View attachment 7007194

Kudos for over 70 bands!!!

 

[One_Dude]

We have a Bose system to play nursing homes and senior centers, and it maybe more than we need, but it works great. As a former sound man, my one piece of advice is, don't short yourself if you plan to buy a mixer. Most 8 channel mixers today only have 4 or 5 xrl inputs; the other inputs are stereo without xrl. For live music I think the stereo inputs are useless, and a pain in the neck to try to use. Decide how many inputs you need and make sure what you buy has at least that many xrl inputs; you'll save yourself a lot of frustration.

Thump on,

One_Dude

 

[trevcda]

I use a pair of JBL PRX Ones and a Soundcraft Ui16 for a lot of smaller situations like this. You could probably get away with a single PRX-One, but the channel count will require an outboard mixer, especially if more than two channels of phantom power might be needed.

 

[Kansas]

For your low volume situation, the Bose stick w sub with an external mixer is plenty good and sounds amazing. I've used them myself and listened to others using them. They have a limit in clean headroom but stay below that and they are rich sounding and easy to hear. Use 2 and you are extra golden.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Several years ago I attended the Monterey Jazz Festival. One of the secondary stage areas was sponsored by Bose. I heard a Jazz guitarist and double bassist perform, and in addition to hearing two top-notch pros play Jazz, the sound system sounded great! They used several Bose stick speakers, with subs, set up strategically throughout the venue. Everyone, musicans and audience, occupied the same space and could hear every nuance of the playing, and the volume was just enough and no louder. I don't know if they used delay, but the sound was super clean without audible artifacts.

When we stop RVing and settle down again, this is what I will do in our music room because I can use it to listen to music everyday, and when playing music with friends in the same space it'll sound fantastic at low enough volume not to annoy my tinnitus or give ne problems with my hearing aids.

I'm an old retired guy whose careers in music and woodworking left me with damaged hearing: I am vehemently in support of JUST LOUD ENOUGH and no louder, and a good "stick & sub" system, like the Bose, can sound fantastic when used intelligently.

 

[fhm555]

I've played plenty of jobs with an 8 channel powered mixer and a couple of 2 way 12" mains on speaker stands. The band was 2 guitars, drums, bass, 2 singers, and a harp. We ran an acoustic guitar, 3 drum mics, 3 vocal mics, and a harp mic. It required volume discipline but worked just fine for the small bars we used it in. The third vocal mic was for the occasional guest singer.

 

[G Aichele]

Our band often plays at assisted living/ retirement centers. We're also all 70+. All acoustic but me on bg. We often play with no PA at all, and I make sure to keep my volume low. If we do need it, we have a single small Yamaha PA speaker, but that's rare.

 

[Bassamatic]

The JBL Eon Model one is amazing. I have seen street buskers using then with great sound - even outdoors. It has a built-in mixer, battery power and many other features. You can sometimes find the previous model for a very good price.

EDIT - Guitar Center has a used one of the first model for $299! (1/4 of original price). No Bluetooth, but I think it is otherwise about the same. Would absolutely be enough for what you do and so easy to fold up and take away.
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[N. Kentucky Bass]

We have a Bose system to play nursing homes and senior centers, and it maybe more than we need, but it works great. As a former sound man, my one piece of advice is, don't short yourself if you plan to buy a mixer. Most 8 channel mixers today only have 4 or 5 xrl inputs; the other inputs are stereo without xrl. For live music I think the stereo inputs are useless, and a pain in the neck to try to use. Decide how many inputs you need and make sure what you buy has at least that many xrl inputs; you'll save yourself a lot of frustration.

Thump on,

One_Dude

Yeah, I've owned a few mixers and it's funny how an eight-channel mixer is not always so clear, especially cheating you on the number of available XLR inputs. I'd rather have a full pallet of options on the input side, including effects for each channel. Once each person's mic and instrument channels are dialed in, setup should be fairly quick. And I like the option of ALL channels having an insert jack to allow external recording. I also prefer analog mixers -- you look, grab and twist the knob. No messing around with different levels of digital screens.

 

[Wasnex]

In all honesty, probably the closer you get to acoustic guitar volume, the better.

I would consider various battery powered amps. This would allow you to setup quickly and with minimum effort. No worries about finding plugs and running extension cords. If you get organized you could be setup and playing in a matter of minutes. Lot's of options at different price points. You could go with some of the Roland options or go big with something like an Anchor Audio Beacon or Big Foot. I have played through the Beacon and it sounded good.


I ran a digital mixer into a pair of the original Bose L1 Model 1 with four of the B1 sub cabs. Something similar would be plenty loud for this application. The EV Evolve 50s are highly regarded and have way more headroom, but are expensive. The unique dispersion of these stick arrays poses some challenges as the sticks are so narrow that the sound tends to wrap around them up into the mids. I used pretty aggressive EQ to solve the resulting feedback problem.