If you stay with AC powered gear, I would strongly consider one of the rack based mixers that is run with a tablet Behringer XR18/Midas MR18 or similar. The benefit is you can walk out front with a wireless tablet to dial in the sound.
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Ideas for full-band PA in tiny low-volume venues
- Thread starter N. Kentucky Bass
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If you stay with AC powered gear, I would strongly consider one of the rack based mixers that is run with a tablet Behringer XR18/Midas MR18 or similar. The benefit is you can walk out front with a wireless tablet to dial in the sound.
Just starting to skim options and a used Mackie CFX12 MKII is looking pretty reasonable at about $350. I've had two different smaller Mackie mixers and they provided good performance. Knob and slider action felt nice and solid.
Your shows are where the "stick and a sub" systems work perfect for. EV and RCF models sound good. With your number of inputs you will need an external mixer.
I'm moving soon to a small ADU so space will be a premium. You've got me thinking I could get the music sound system and bass rig in one form factor. It stands to reason recorded music would sound great though a Bose or equivalent stick-and-sub.
The EV Evolve 30M or 50M would be where I'd start. They sound great, easy to tote (get the rolling bag for it).
These have a digital mixer with 4 mono channels, a stereo channel and a bluetooth channel. Plug a small mixer into the stereo channel and you have all the inputs needed for your group.
These have a digital mixer with 4 mono channels, a stereo channel and a bluetooth channel. Plug a small mixer into the stereo channel and you have all the inputs needed for your group.
Look for a few Bag End TA-12 cabinets and a powered mixer. High quality build and they're small and sound amazing.
I didn't realize there were so many threads on TB about the all-in-one line array PAs plus sub. I've spent the last day or so reading through, starting with the intro of Bose in early 2000s up to today. Google has been my friend and the best commentary has been on TalkBass compared to other sources! So kudos to our own brain trust for gear advice!
Can any of you speak from practical experience as to how well one of these (Yamaha Stagepas, EV 50M, etc.) can support a full band in a low-volume assisted living center or nursing home? Assume 3 instruments (incl. electric bass) and 3 mics and an indoor audience of 30-50. Virtually all of the YouTube reviews I've seen that featured a band used two units, not one. Some featured three and even four units for a band. Even the DJs are typically using two units. I'd like a realistic impression of whether I'd be forced to double the cost ... or not. Hopefully, not! An overriding goal is to eliminate the need for lugging personal cabs, amps, and combos. I want to simplify sound reinforcement with one device. Thanks!
Can any of you speak from practical experience as to how well one of these (Yamaha Stagepas, EV 50M, etc.) can support a full band in a low-volume assisted living center or nursing home? Assume 3 instruments (incl. electric bass) and 3 mics and an indoor audience of 30-50. Virtually all of the YouTube reviews I've seen that featured a band used two units, not one. Some featured three and even four units for a band. Even the DJs are typically using two units. I'd like a realistic impression of whether I'd be forced to double the cost ... or not. Hopefully, not! An overriding goal is to eliminate the need for lugging personal cabs, amps, and combos. I want to simplify sound reinforcement with one device. Thanks!
AFAIK it's fairly common for singer songwriter duos to use only 1. In most circumstances, two will be significantly better...but that does not mean the extra cost and hassle is justified. It's up to you to decide if the results are good enough.
One of the problems I had with the Bose L1 Model 1 is horizontal dispersion becomes fairly beamy in the low treble region. Because of this, I felt it was necessary to run them closer to the center of the band than normal in order to provide uniform sound quality across the audience. If I placed them in the normal position, the center of the audience would loose some of the treble response.
Moving them closer to the center resulted in a loss of gain before feedback for the front line vocals. A contributing factor is the columns also loose pattern control along the horizontal axis at a much higher frequency. So basically the sound wraps around the column well into the mids, rather than being force forward. Since this energy is picked up by the mics it causes a build up of energy that distorts the tonal balance.
I mitigated the feedback and degraded tonal balance with EQ. IMHO the amount of carving required was pretty extreme.
I could not find polar plots for the Evolve 50.
I'm having a hard time seeing value in the Bose systems. Maybe the Bose sound would convince me, but other brands seem to offer about the same thing for a substantial discount. Having lugged, assembled, disassembled, and re-lugged legacy PAs, the stick concept seems like a no-brainer for serving my target audiences. Speed and simplicity, however, appear to come with a premium price.
Still curious ... can a single stick do the job for my use case?
Still curious ... can a single stick do the job for my use case?
I certainly would not recommend the Bose based on my experience. I used a lot of tricks to make them work, and still found them lacking in both fidelity and volume.
To be honest I am not a huge fan of these types of speaker systems. Various reviews I have read suggest Evolve 50 and HK Elements prioritize sound quality, which is what I usually focus on. Neither is cheap.
As I said...yes, but it is up to you to decide if the results are acceptable. Some consideration of other bandmembers' expectations is also in order.
As a starting point, I'm hopeful to hear from actual experiences of running a whole band through a single stick for a low-volume venue. I've read thousands of posts and am not seeing this kind of feedback. Most of the band stories used at least two sticks.
I can speak to using the EV50M, but not with as many inputs as you need. That said, when we have run out of inputs, we simply use a small board plugged in to one of the XLR inputs. The EV literature says it has 8 inputs, but that includes two bluetooth inputs that are essentially useless, one other stereo that we've never used. Also, inputs 5&6 on the EV require line level inputs, Last night we handled guitar, bass, key board and 3 vocal mikes. The sound is amazing, IMHO.
I saw a few comments elsewhere that described issues when running bass and guitars through the same stick in addition to a few other inputs. Something to do with frequency interference from too many instrument signals. Ever experience that with your band-through-a-stick performances?
I should have mentioned that we only use one stick. It is absolutely adequate for almost any situation that is not a huge room. We use it at a local Moose Club, at our regular gig at a local bar.
The EV includes a 12" sub. Never any issue with conflict with the bass and guitar. I'm playing a Yamaha SLB300 through a Fishman Platinum Pro pre, and use the DI out directly to the EV mixer. I don't even use an amp when there are only three of us.
In a small space at LOW volume this can work, if the band is very quiet... and that is difficult to achieve with a whole band. I'd say one stick and sub system will not work for your situation. My suggestion is to get a couple small powered speakers on stands and an analog mixer big enough for your input needs. It can be as quiet as you want, but capable of much more. That said, I have seen the single Bose system work well in some spaces.
Are you suggesting this would be enough to handle bass without a subwoofer? I could see CP8s or something like that working as the mains. But with mains in front of the band, you'd also need a monitor or two so there's more gear....
One of the interesting things we've noticed with the EV is that the volume seems to be the same if you are standing directly in front of the pole, or 20ft away and off to the side. I'm sure Wasnex, or another knowledgeable engineer can explain why; I can't.
Two powered speakers on poles and an analog board is what we replaced with the EV. We've never looked back. It can get much louder that you would expect, and the sound quality is just fine for our needs. The patrons at a noisy bar gig don'e seem to mind.
With the EV, you do have to put your faith in the app to run the device. There is a small window and a "jog wheel" on the mixer, but none of us can see what it says unless down on hands and knees. Relying on the app is the issue - we have it loaded on one old iPad and a couple of phones. No issues yet, knock on wood!
Two powered speakers on poles and an analog board is what we replaced with the EV. We've never looked back. It can get much louder that you would expect, and the sound quality is just fine for our needs. The patrons at a noisy bar gig don'e seem to mind.
With the EV, you do have to put your faith in the app to run the device. There is a small window and a "jog wheel" on the mixer, but none of us can see what it says unless down on hands and knees. Relying on the app is the issue - we have it loaded on one old iPad and a couple of phones. No issues yet, knock on wood!
OK, as I understood you describing a VERY quiet performance in a small space. You can add monitors and subs if you like
High school dance last spring, 100-150 people, and the DJ brought one EV 50m. He said he used two the last time he was in that space and it was way more than needed. After hearing it that night, I believe one would be plenty for the setting you describe.
