Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread

[Mastermold]

Mr. Savit saved me money as well; by recommending a string change over a pick-up swap.

The truth is, SX basses really do sound good, bone stock with no mods but new strings.

Their issues are mostly just fit and finish and quality control, things you hear about include stuff like bad frets, misalignments, poor routing, etc. That may or may not affect playability, depending on what it is, but their tone is good (at least to me).

 

[lucas vigor]

If you are gigging with an SX any time soon, let me know in a PM or post here. I will come check it out. I live in the same area as you.

 

[THand]

.... There was a lot of commonality between those two C.D.'s as far as players instruments and amps used, but the two bands have very different feels IMO.

I agreed with that 100%....I like both bands, but if I just heard them on the radio and didn't know anything but the music, I wouldn't have a clue that it was the same guys on guitar and bass in both bands.

 

[THand]

I always go into the studio with new strings, but play them in for about a half hour to or so just to take that brand new edge off and tame them a little.

On the "Homeward Bound" Sessions, the Fender and the SX both had strings I hadn't had the opportunity to briefly play in. The only track where it bothers me is "I'll Be There", because I think that was the first one I did with the SX. Not that I hate that tone or anything, but one small thing I would do differently, if I was allowed a "do over" on that session.

Next time you goof up, don't tell. Just see if anyone notices

I don't know how much time I spent listening for the "sqeeky new" strings and trying to pick out the SX on HB. I knew the other 2 albums were Fender, only because I remembered you saying that and that the SX would be on the new album. I didn't think it would be fair for me to do your test in the OP because of that info....but in full disclosure, I freely admit that I unfortunately do not possess gloden ears and would not be able to tell by listening. Especially from a myspace player! I have the CD's and I gave up trying to pick out the SX long ago, even though I knew it was in there, and know exactly what your Fender sounds like!

So there, even with CD quality recordings, I can't tell the difference.

I have an SPB-2 in mine, I keep thinking about getting a Lollar, but that SPB-2 is pretty nice, now that I am used to it.

 

[Corey Y]

I honestly can't tell, but it's not a perfectly evenly matched comparison to my ear. The bass tracks I'm hearing sound good for the style that's being played, although the bass seems a lot more buried in the mix on the Death & Taxes songs. The Mark Lind songs have some very upfront bass tones and the second track on that page sounds different than the others, but they all sound good. Whether or not it's my favorite bass tone isn't really relevant to if I think there's an obvious great/suck disparity between tones, which I don't think there is.

I don't see why so many people have griped about the pickup swap. Other people have already pointed it out, but the savings between a new budget instrument and a big name vintage model don't break down over the price of a new pickup. If you can find a vintage instrument in good condition for the same price as a budget model plus the cost of upgrades I'd be beyond shocked. They don't always feel as nice or play as smoothly, so I suppose that's another issue to consider. Personally if an instrument isn't perfectly comfortable to play but sounds fantastic I'd just get used to it over time. I do find it a bit amusing that a lot of people who talk down an instrument like the SX come off like if they admit it's a good deal they have to go buy one and use it. It can be a good deal and you can still pass it up and buy/use whatever you want.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, one person's trash is another person's treasure and all, but imo if it sounds good it is good.

 

[Jim Dep]

And as far as the collectability of older instruments, I am sure it has as much (or more) to do with baby-boomer nostalgia and how the instruments make you feel than the actual sound of the instrument.

I agree and confess that I use a Fender strap with my SX P-bass.

 

[WoodyG3]

I agree and confess that I use a Fender strap with my SX P-bass.

Well, then it's not an SX anymore, is it? Just another modded bass.

 

[ProfGumby]

Sad Songs???? That wasn't on there?

Oh! LOL!!! Mark must have thrown that one up yesterday!! LOL!!! I don't remember the order before, or what was changed other than Compulsive F*&K Up isn't on there anymore.... that was the last solo accoustic track I said to disregard anyway. hahah


Ok.. I'll come clean..

From the Death & Taxes page
Whole Damn Thing Fender

Orange Line Fender

From Mark Lind & The Unloved page

o.k. I see the order has changed, and I don't remember the order before BUT....

Sad Songs SX

I'll Be There SX

Cold Hearted SX

No One T Cry To SX

Coke & Jack Fender

Familiar Face Fender

Open Letter to Boston Fender

So She Says Fender

Better Days (SPOILER) Peavey Foundation

Be Your Man Fender

I liked the Peavey tossed in there! might add a new dimension to the firefight!

And for the record I always do terrible in these comparisons with my Guesses. But it also always proves my point, I can pick out the bass and I can decide for myself how the bass sounds. What is on the headstock makes no difference.

I am also adding a neat dimension to my personal point of view. I am really liking what Squier is doing lately. (aside from the way FMIC seems to be handling small shops) and I can now be blasted and called a hack because of 2 different bass manufacturers!

But I do get some immunity due to the real, actual, genuine Fender neck on one of my Squiers! Even if it is a MIM neck...ooops, I can get blasted for that too....

Hell, I might just as well add a Jay Turser to really be a well rounded target!

 

[Brad Johnson]

To be honest, this thread seems to be a bunch of old dudes trying to justify their mid-life crisis purchases of old fender's because they 'sound better' when in actual fact, the difference is so minimal between that 'x' thousand dollar bass and the 200 dollar modified sx, that they wasted their money.

I have a feeling any of these people who won't listen to the clips but still continue to argue, actually listened to the clips and couldn't tell a difference.... thus they blame it on the pickup being swapped out.


Now that doesn't change the fact that a ****ing 200 dollar bass sounds just as good as a 3000 dollar one.




but that's just what i see looking in......

Yep, you're seeing what you want to see.

 

[Brad Johnson]

ok so if you buy instruments to resell them and make money... maybe not, but strictly from a MUSICAL standpoint (after all... that is why we play these things right.....) the difference of thousands of dollars equals very slight, if any difference in tone.

That's clearly not a given but again, if that's how you need to see things I'm perfectly happey letting you go through your musical life that way. You aren';t the first and you definitely won't be the last.


You do appear to be confusing MUSICAL with RECORDING. A common mistake.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks Jimmy. That's a good point.


What was crappy about the Fenders? Let me guess... The setup was bad!

Did he ever actually answer that question?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of TB'ers play in some sort of band, be it a garage band, sit in at open mic's, cover bands, church ensambles, pickup bands with friends, blues bands, make some noise for fun bands etc. etc.

Doesn't have to be at a pro level to constitute playing in a band IMO.

There are even some with record deals , and touring bands, session guys , people with nice endorsment deals etc. etc. here as well, but I'm sure the VAST majority of TB'ers don't stay locked in thier bedrooms just practicing alone.

Well, even though you're now narrowing this down to TB (most bass owners are not on TB... disagree?) I would still bet serious money that most don't play in a band. Not even going to an occasional open mic. Why do you think they do? Do most bassists you run into in real life play in bands?

I don't know any instrument where most people who play it play in bands... how do you figure basses break that trend?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Stop whining.

Still, the fact remains that a $200 SX was demonstrated to perform as well as a Pre-CBS Fender.

Your agenda to somehow denegrate that fact is starting to look desperate.

Funny stuff. Completely clueless but hey...


Some of you have a pretty weak grasp of what a fact really is. No wonder my "whining" is bothering you.

No point dealing with this person any further. You're imagination has got the best of you.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Well, standing out in a live mix isn't everybody's intent... as a bass player.

My bad, I didn't realize that "If you're someone... " wouldn't be visible on your monitor.

 

[Brad Johnson]

i thought brad was taking the "in favor of sx" side.

I was... that's how wound up some of these people get... they can't even read straight.


The issues I took with this test had nothing to do with SX's, you could've substituted two other basses and I'd have the same issue. I think I even wrote that before... but I wouldn't want that to get in the way of someone who needs to read with a slant.

If you have an SX and are happy with it, be happy. If OTOH you have the need to convince others that it's the equal of something else, knock yourselves out. That IMO is clearly a personal problem.

 

[Brad Johnson]

What you quoted by me:Originally Posted by Brad Johnson
It doesn't say that at all... unless listening to recordings is all that counts.

How it sounds in the mix with the music you're doing IS all that counts.

IS it? Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing. MY guess would be the usual

Fine. If I'm playing live and NOT RECORDING...?


Do people really have this much difficulty with a clearly worded statement?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just owning a bass doesn't make one a bass player.

Too easy. Go ahead, now you can decide who's a bass player.



If they got a bass, by any means, and they're playing it...


The stuff just gets deeper and deeper. Good times.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm up late after a gig... in case anyone's wondering.

 

[bassbenj]

To be honest, this thread seems to be a bunch of old dudes trying to justify their mid-life crisis purchases of old fender's because they 'sound better' when in actual fact, the difference is so minimal between that 'x' thousand dollar bass and the 200 dollar modified sx, that they wasted their money.

I have a feeling any of these people who won't listen to the clips but still continue to argue, actually listened to the clips and couldn't tell a difference.... thus they blame it on the pickup being swapped out.

Now that doesn't change the fact that a ****ing 200 dollar bass sounds just as good as a 3000 dollar one.

but that's just what i see looking in......

Hey, I'm an old dude with two SX basses and only one Fender and it ain't "old" it's MIM.

And I did just listen to the clips. And I don't have "golden ears" and I doubt that I could have picked the SX out without any hint. But once I HAD the hint the validity of my comments on pickup swap become obvious...or did they?

What my ears heard was that both basses sounded VERY good. But what I would have been looking for had the pickups been factory would have been that slightly more "edgy" sound of SX factory pups. I love that sound so there's a chance I would have recognized it. Personally I have no idea what Lollar pickups sound like so how could I pick them out?

But now here's what I found on listening. The Fender sounded exactly like... well... like you expect a Fender to sound like. That standard "old school" sound that we've heard so many times. The SX in spite of the different pickups STILL had that slightly more "modern" tone. Not hideously modern mind you, just a tiny "edge" to it that I really like. And let me say these are really minor differences I'm talking about! But I find it interesting that the SX bass sort of kept it's tone even with the pickups swapped. Or maybe it's just that lollar pups sound kind of like SX pups?

So my bottom line is (no surprise) I like the "modern" edge of the SX has best. It sort of speaks to the listener that this is a recent recording and not one from the vault. On the other hand if you want to exactly duplicate all that old stuff out there, then spend the cash. Clearly an old Fender still sounds exactly as it did when the old recordings were made!

As for how a bass feels when you play it, that is a personal issue. I hated the feel of "old" Fender basses when I played them back when they were "new" Fender basses. But that is a different issue from tone.

 

[savit260]

Well, even though you're now narrowing this down to TB (most bass owners are not on TB... disagree?) I would still bet serious money that most don't play in a band. Not even going to an occasional open mic. Why do you think they do? Do most bassists you run into in real life play in bands?

Yes, I honestly can't think of one bass player I know in real life, that doesn't play in some sort of a band.

I don't know any instrument where most people who play it play in bands... how do you figure basses break that trend?

Bass is not an instrumet that lends itself easily to "solo" type playing (required IMO), much like drums.... so it seems with bass... as with drums... most everyone I run into that actually plays, plays in a band or some sort.

Not so for pianists, guitar players, horn players etc., that lend themselves easier to "solo" type stuff.

Personaly, I'd sooner gouge my eyes out with a dull spork than play bass all alone... or listen to Wooten solo for more than 7 minutes, or Buddy Rich solo for more than 5,(love them both in an group setting though) or a triangle, or tympany solo act. I think it has to do with the nature of being a rythm section instrument.